"My first flight in an Airplane was April 4th this year [2007], now I'm sitting right seat of a E145...."

"Trust me man turning the knobs and pressing the buttons in this airplane can be so difficult."

Here is a guy with no respect for the profession, the job, or the career....

He's from ATP. I think he got hired at ASA with low time.

Frankly guys like this make my blood boil. Total sense of entitlement and once here total lack of repsect for the profession. I'm embarrassed to say I share the same job as this guy <shaking head>

I agree whole heartedly with your first point. However, I think he is at CHQ. ASA doesn't fly 145s.

Why do I make you blood boil man? What have I done to you? LOL..... I respect the profession, It's guys like y'all who thinks someone has to pledge with the same pledge book you did don't respect the profession. All of the guys I've flown with are very Impressed with me. It's not my job to impress guys on this Forum. My job is to fly an airplane.......... I do it, and I do it well, I got enough friends don't need U!!!!! It makes no sense man. This has turned from a discussion about ATC to Low time.....

This is Such hypocrisy........ I can just hear you guys at a Job Interview.......
Interviewer.......Hi Sir We here at ___________ Airlines would like to offer you a position with our great airline
You...... Well, you know....... thanks for the job offer but in order to gain the respect of my fellow "Pilots" I think I'll go back and fly until I have about 1500hrs.:rolleyes: Airline experience isn't what I need right now I need more "time" so I can create the Illusion of experience. Plus then I can talk about all the other guys who get hired with lower time.:D

Here are the facts man! I went through the SAME training as the 1500, 2000, 3000hr guys in my class. We fly the SAME airplane, probably have made the SAME mistakes in the plane. What's different? They had more time than I. The flight instructor, with 4000hrs had no better advantage or knowledge about the company procedures, the airplane's systems, flying a swept wing aircraft, than I when we got in that class or sim. We all started on the same level playing field. Get a grip man!

Being hired after 6months of flying speaks highly of me? You can disagree, but my Classmates, my Instructors, my check airmen, my captains, my passengers, everybody I've dealt with thus far would agree.......

I don't doubt the 1500, 2000, 3000 hour guys in your class probably made the same mistakes as you. The difference is they made the mistakes in a Single Cessna on traffic watch or a 310 hauling checks not in a 40,000 lb aircraft with fifty pax in back.

I don't know you or your flying skills. But your I did it in six months, that proves I am great attitude sucks.



The saddest thing is that a controller asked us pilots a favor and the thread has gone down the crapper. All the guy sought was a little cooperation so we could all go home after a nice boring day.

I couldn't agree with you more here.... The reason it's gone down the crapper is that these guys continue to throw attacks at me.

[quote=FlyJSH;351993]I did it in six months, that proves I am great attitude sucks/quote]

I am a victim of spin, here.... That earlier post was a responce I had to a question in the Flight School Section 4months ago. I've been Rev. Jeremiah Wright here, they're taking bits and pieces of things that I've said and are putting them together to attempt to make a point.

The attitude from them is "You did it in six month that proves you Suck attitude sucks."...........................

Now back to the topic...I think every pilot should spend some time in an ARTCC, APPCH or a busy tower and every ATC should spend a little time in the Cockpit. I think it's a part of CRM, They're just as much a part of the crew as everyone else. They often control situations that will greater enhance the operations in the cockpit, and reduce workload. I think the Idea it's being a part of the training curriculm on both ends would be good. We don't study the 7110 (at least where I went to school;)) and I'm pretty sure they're not required to know all our regs.

[QUOTE=keiundraj;351998]I couldn't agree with you more here.... The reason it's gone down the crapper is that these guys continue to throw attacks at me.

You're right, it's not you...it's the rest of us and we're all out to get you. :rolleyes: Got paranoia?

I had a great response for this thread for our young know-it-all, but I realized half-way through typing it that he's not mature enough to understand it, so it is a waste of time. Unfortunately, that truly is what you get when you pay peanuts for pilots. I'm sure not all the young guys are that naive and cocky, but if I had a guy like that as one of my students on the military side, we would crush him until he cried out, then we would show him the door. You can always teach a guy how to do it the right way, but a guy with an attitude like that is a danger to everybody in the air.

I hear ya milky. I hit that point with this guy last night. Then his posts this morning about how WE all have the attitude and are ganging up on HIM and how HE is the intelligent, rational, and capable pilot just cinched the deal. Maybe in a few days, on the 1 year anniversary of his first flight, he can use his vastly superior attitude and knowledge of all things aeronautical to teach us all what he has learned and what we should know:rolleyes:

Those crazy ATCers actually had the nerve to SELCAL me today and ask if we could make 390. Can't he read my flight plan that said M84/370? I don't care if Air New Zealand is too heavy for higher. Maybe I'm just grumpy from spending all my money at Dukes for the last three days.:D

I had a controller try to give me a pilot deviation for not accepting a clearance (I couldn't comply with it). I ASAPed it of course and was totally vindicated. But best of all, supposedly controllers are to be trained so as to not have this happen again. He on the other hand got has hand slapped with a wet noodle.;)

Why is that? Just curious.

As an outside reader to this entertaining thread....I can find valid points in arguments from both sides (thankfully I have decent reading comprehension!), but frankly, everyone looks just as silly at this point.

Everyone needs to put away their huge e-penises for a little while and chill out.

I do what I feel is safe and appropriate and within SOPs at my company. That is being an aviator and using captain's authority, etc. And I am willing to bet my company would back me up every time. The folks who get into trouble at my company are the ones who deviate from SOPs.

If ATC asks me to go fast I will do so, within the boundaries of safety, common sense and SOPs. If they ask me to go slow, I will do so within the same limitations.

Call me what you will. Doesn't bother me one bit. As long as I am the captain on my airplane I call the shots according to my company's SOP and the FARs and common sense. Not according to how you feel an 'aviator' should fly.

You have alot to learn with statements like this. Your "I'm a victim" cry is very typical of an immature person. If you feel attacked then grow a thicker skin. Not my problem. You don't like feeling attacked then cut down on all the I'm as good as a 4000hr pilot rhetoric and learn to be humble. At 5000, 8000, 9000hr I will ALWAYS have much to learn and certainly wouldn't be touting how everyone I fly with is impressed with me. Its weak.

Going into Shanghai, the approach controller gave us a clearanence to,
"Orbit at present position". No further instructions were given for almost 5 minutes.

First time I've ever held while flying Int'l.

Oh well, sorry that's the best I could do.

FF

jumpseating into CLE with expressjet a while ago and everything was going fine till the crew started talking to the tower. First had us switch to a parallel runway which the crew accepted this change. when the plane was within a few hundred feet or so the tower came back wanting the crew to go back to original runway assignment. the capt was flying and said unable(aborted landing) in a pi#@ed tone of voice and requested radar vectors back to final. tower said enter left pattern and the capt came back demanding radar vectors. tower finally gives vectors and once on the ground tower gives crew the number.

Had something similar in Kuwait one time.
Lots of aricraft coming back at the same time in Al Jaber and got the call "uh.........(long pause)uh...........SKY IS FULL (then silence)":(

Thought I could feel a hundred eyeballs rolling into the back of every pilot's head at that point.

USMCFLYR

I think its a little hypocritical that everybody here bashes people for taking a job with low time, if the job was offered then why dont you take your complaint to the airline instead of the pilot that takes the opportunity that might not come up a year from now.

If you had the opportunity to take a job at an airline with 300 hours would you have not taken it as well? Yes CFI'ing makes you a better pilot and bla bla bla we all have heard this over and over, but the thruth of the matter here is that most of us want to go to an airline and if the opportunity presents itself then so be it.

Take my case, CFI job with no guaranteed pay, no benefits at 17 an hour vs job at a regional with HEALT INSURANCE (I dont have any right now, cant afford it) and the all important seniority number, should I just say no sorry I want to make myself a better pilot and be an instructor for a year. By then only God knows what could have happened, and there are always CFI jobs to go back to if the airlines furlough.

Yes many people went through years of CFI'ing to get to the regionals and now they dont like the fact that "inexperienced youngsters" are getting in a lot easier, sure it sucks for you but you would have done the same thing.

Been there, passed that and still didn't go. Crazy? Maybe. But when I look back, there is no way I was ready for that. Yeah, I could fly a plane and had a decent scan. But if you asked me to be able to make decisions and coordinate w/ ATC beyond following instructions, I would have been slow or lost. Why? Because I didn't know. It took the mistakes I've made as an instructor to learn what I can and can't get away with in the system. I wouldn't trade that knowledge for any amount of jet time. Okay, maybe for 10,000 hours....:D

T-38 Touchdown Speed
 

AZ:

Because they are afraid to fully-flare the airplane. The T-38 buffets like crazy in the flare (and even on final) as it is a thin-wing airplane, so to max perform it, you have to fly in buffet (actually, downwash hitting the horizontal stabilizer). Wing root is about 5 inches thick; wingtips are about 0.95 inch.

It takes a lot more pull on the stick than the student expects, it buffets a lot (a buffet that in any other airplane you would instinctively think "Cripes!! I'm in a deep stall!!"), and the best part is, if you fully flare it, you can't see where you are going. Kind of like landing a tail-dragger--the nose blocks the view. So, they incomplete-flare it, and we touchdown fast. It is hard on the tires--they rarely last more than 25 landings, and that is going down to the 4th layer of exposed tire-cord. (It's colored red so the crew chiefs/pilots know when it is time to be changed).

Viz from the backseat is bad (but not as bad as the backseat in the F-4). I know when the student has a good aimpoint on final when I can't see the aimpoint (His helmet is in the way). You learn to use a lot of peripheral vision, but today's kids were raised on X-Box and Play Stations--to them, the world is always straight-ahead. And they won't look away from the HUD--the electronic God of wisdom.

Related: if I say: 'Traffic at 3:00 O'clock, 4 miles, 5 low," odds are he'll look the wrong way. It became common enough that I wondered why. Answer: starting about 5 years ago, all my students grew up with digital watches. They had never owned an analog watch, so clock-position means nothing to them--they have to learn it when they are 23 or 24.

Thanks for the great explanation UAL. I've heard before that the T-38 could be a pretty challenging aircraft to pilot and this only makes it sound more so.

So, are you saying that this normally occuring buffet is not actually the onset of a stall?

I've read that stall recovery in the T-38 can be very difficult, even with full reheat. If I were a student, I think I'd be a little nervous about it too! :eek:

Also, thats pretty shocking that anyone who has made it that far into flight training would not be able to correctly traffic direction callouts. Crazy.

Pinnacle baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, where I went we DID take an ATC class for a whole semester, 3 hours of credit, taught by a a controller from a nearby airport. We did use the .65 in class. I don't know how much we "studied" it, and I most definitely don't know much about their regs, but we did use it in class.

On a side note, keiundraj, when you ask questions like "is the stick shaker a practicable airspeed," even in jest, that doesn't do much for your "I'm as good as a 4000 hour pilot" or "I made the same mistakes that those high time guys made" arguments. Guarantee nobody else even considered (or joked about) slowing to the stick shaker, or even enough to get the PLI on the screen.

Lastly, with your "every flight I'VE made has arrived safely with the mission accomplished" attitude, you need to remember or realize, one of the two, that it's not a one man show out there. Granted the experienced guys could fly it single pilot without much of a problem in almost any situation (e.g., IOE checkairmen, high time captains, etc...) Low-time FO's are going to have more difficulty doing that in high-workload environements. Thankfully we're not even supposed to attempt to fly it single-pilot, so that's really a moot point. Just work on the attitude man.