Everyone in this industry deserves a raise, however, airlines very soon will be posting significant losses once again. It's a tragedy because pilots represent the very best in skilled labor, not to mention the high level of responsibility that comes w/ the job. Pilots have worked hard to keep this industry going strong. With that said and based on the assumption that the economy is just great and oil goes back down to $40/bbl like so many folks think will happen, then maybe we all stand a chance of getting raises. My gut feeling is that oil ain't coming back down (at least significantly) and the economy has not yet bottomed out yet. The whole Bear Stearns development should serve as a real wake up call to all of us re: just how quickly things can change. No one saw it coming.

Pilots, unfortunately, should probably be more concerned about preserving current pay and jobs. If we go for big raises, we'll definitely put our more junior pilots out of work and on the steet at a time when jobs will be more scarce in this country.

move to europe!!! eurotriiiiiiiip

NO. Why would it? I mean, when most of the people on this forum think that they make enough money anyway. In previous posts, whenever I raised the subject of substandard pay I was met with ridicule and criticism. Comments like "if you don't like the the pay then get out!" Maybe in Europe it will because Europeans have stronger labor unions and are people overall are less acceptant of big corporations taking their pay away and passing the savings to the CEO's, but in The United States it will only go down even further. Pilots think that getting paid in peanuts is ok and the management is not going to force a pay raise...

It is a culture thing too. People in Europe don't put up with the greed of management like they do here. American's have a high tolerance for abuse and that is just the way corporate america like it.
First year at British Airways you get 6 week vacation. 14 days off a month and everybody on property will sit reserve 1 month a year.
US Airways the first year guy gets 1 week vacation. Hey even the 7th year one too. 10 days off and endless reserve in Philly.

Enough is enough. We need to be spending our Alpa money on professional negotiators with the sole purpose of making our lives worth living. We need to scrap the Railway Labor Act and make an Airline Labor Act.
It might take 10 years but it will be well worth it.

Pilot pay has gone up everywhere but here over the last 10 years. It's just the American way to pay less for something by "downsizing" the higher paid labor for new cheaper labor at the bottom or outsourcing.

All industries have faced this. Good experienced labor get downsized or offered retirement so they can get new cheaper blood in the system.

just typical american fashion...

Another side note, i don't think that simply offering "luxury" business aircraft at a premium price would net much of a gain in this market. If you could corner the market, get agreements with businesses off the bat, and guarantee that these groups would continue to use your product, maybe.....but the american public will typically just complain about service, and then request the cheapest ticket, and if you can't have both, then they'll just complain about both, but still, buy the cheap fair....

If you could say "airline A" will offer ontime performance always, great seats, good meals, and the best in amenities, while "airline B" will offer to get you and your family to cabo for $100 bux a piece, most will just choose airline b.......sad but true.

Safeeye, Let me add 3 points:

1. ALPA has professional negotiatiors and a staff of Experts and they don't cost you a dime extra. Maybe your personal MEC didn't or doesn't utilize them properly, but if you are ALPA you have them at your disposal.

2. Changing the RLA isn't the real issue, it is having an Administration who allows true bargining to occur under the RLA (or NLRB if you prefer).

3. Even if you have both of the above under the best of circumstances, you (we) won't get squat unless your Pilot group is 100% behind your negotiaitors and leadership. If the line Pilots aren't willing to "walk the walk" (after all the talk at the table) and most importantly to Stand as "ONE" behind your negotiating committee, you will only get what MGT offers you, which is usually table scraps.

Tough to "walk the walk" when you have gojet pilots doing what they did when the waterskiers were attempting to negotiate.

When John Prater was elected, everyone was all gung ho about the changes HE was supposed to bring. I was hoping to hear some good news regarding negotiations, but it seems as if no one is getting anywhere. However, I do appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments regarding the issue. I hope things will change. But, it seems as long as pilots will continue to fly for the wages that these companies are offering, we don't have much of a leg to stand on.

This is usually where someone jumps in and tells us regional pilots how we are selling out the industry...

I'd accept that if Mesa pilots were the only ones complaining, but everybody is moaning. From the bottom feeder airlines to the "legacy" carriers. I think pilots are too passive. We want more money, we need to go get it. I think there have been enough talks with management at all the airlines. It's time for some action.

Pilots don't have to strike either. We're the ones that fly the planes. If we want, we can make a given flight cost more. Why not say to management, "you've been turning profit and keeping it for yourselves. If we don't get a piece of the pie, next month's fuel bill will be up by 5%"


Don't you think they'd have to sit up and pay attention. I don't fly professionally yet, so I'd like to hear what the pros think about it.

I was researching the 1st yr FO pay and for all those who knock Gojet pilots,
1st yr Gojet FO's are getting paid the most out of all the regionals. Maybe that's why some don't like them......they make more than you!