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I currently work at Mesa. If you guys are talking in terms of credit hours, I will tell you right now it is entirely too easy to bill the company for at least 110 hours per bid period (and keep in mind we have 13 of them). This is happening across the board. I've flown with numerous guys billing out 130-140 credit hours a month. Granted, yes, horrible quality of life and wreckless regard for the pilot group; however, a large majority of our pilots are captializing financially on the current situation. Just my two cents.
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Originally Posted by DsrtAV8R
(Post 355169)
I currently work at Mesa. If you guys are talking in terms of credit hours, I will tell you right now it is entirely too easy to bill the company for at least 110 hours per bid period (and keep in mind we have 13 of them). This is happening across the board. I've flown with numerous guys billing out 130-140 credit hours a month. Granted, yes, horrible quality of life and wreckless regard for the pilot group; however, a large majority of our pilots are captializing financially on the current situation. Just my two cents.
100% deadhead pay 3:45+ daily guarantee Trip or duty rigs 100% cancellation pay (every time) Block or Better Etc. You all wouldn’t be working yourselves to death in order to get paid a little extra. I know you all are working hard on your next TA; trying to gain back what you all lost bringing Freedom back in house plus some improvements and I wish you guys the best of luck, if we ever meet on an overnight I'm buying the first round. BTW, I know that I'm preaching to the choir. Good Day. |
Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 355253)
BTW, I know that I'm preaching to the choir.
Oh yeh, I'll be taking you up on that round. |
This reminds me of a funny thread a while back...
drinking game The APC Drinking Game First, obtain your booze of choice. I suggest Cabo Wabo tequila. Next, pull up the last two days of posting in the Regional Airlines section of the forums. Take one shot when one of the following posts appear: (Airline) vs (Airline), Double Shot if it's a major vs regional. Low time pilot asking minimums for an airline. When someone asks about Mesa, go!, Colgan and the first ten replies are flames. When someone asks for career advice and the first ten replies are that the only good pilots are instructors first and that lowtimers are ruining aviation. Double shot when a FBO student and a aviation university grad argue over who is smarter. When the thread gets highjacked for pro or anti-union arguements. After finishing you bottle, call off for "fatigue" the next morning and await the call from your CP. |
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
(Post 354303)
People hate Mesa because it is a glimpse into the future of every airline job. Mesa has learned how to squeeze their employees for every penny. Armed with low costs Mesa is then able to grow and effectively compete.
Mesa and companies like it have proved to the industry that pilots, F/A's and the rest will work for next to nothing and will put up with a lot in order to remain in aviation. Other companies are being forced into similar practices or go under. SkyHigh 12 months MESA won't exist as a xpress/connection carrier. Then they'll be GO! alone....then the HI aircarriers will do exactly what Mainline carriers did to Independance. Then they won't exist at all. This is my guess. It's unfortunate because I'm not a Mesa hater - I just feel they are pilots who have gotten in an unfortunate circumstance and in this industry U turns are hard. It still boils down to very poor management who doesn't understand employees make companies - especially front line employees. I can honestly say I have seen the transition at ASA (where I work). Since the new CEO and the new contract there has been a rediculous shift in morale. Most people I talk to on a day to day basis mostly enjoy working there. A CEO who understands the importance of employees is what I feel is making the difference. Just my .02c |
blcampbell,
Pay no mind to Skyhigh. He's a bitter pilot who enjoys beating down the hopes and dreams of others. His opinions are way over the top, plus I can confidently say that he's been wrong on his predictions well over 85% of the time. He has an overly pessimist view and he feels that absolutely no one in the industry has any good in them. Just read his postings, smile, laugh and say "Skyhigh..........you never cease to amaze me!" JJ |
[quote=denramp;354627]
Originally Posted by N2rotation
(Post 354301)
Everyone at Mesa is willing to do other RJ pilot's job for less. UNDERCUTTING.
And how much are you getting paid to fly that ERJ??? 8000, 9000, 10000 dollars a month? YOU are Lowering the bar by taking that regional job!!!!!!!!! POT........MEET KETTLE |
Originally Posted by chitownpilot
(Post 355565)
So tell me... how else are we supposed to get time for the SUPPOSEDLY awesome legacy airlines in this country WITHOUT working for the regionals??? DO NOT SAY MILITARY. Note sarcasm. |
Originally Posted by denramp
(Post 354627)
And how much are you getting paid to fly that ERJ??? 8000, 9000, 10000 dollars a month? YOU are Lowering the bar by taking that regional job!!!!!!!!! POT........MEET KETTLE |
Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 355568)
Yes we all know the Legacies love those Baron and Navajo 135 pilots with no Military or 121 time, don't they. Their ground schools and seniority lists are full of them.
Note sarcasm. Regional pilots fly 50-76 seat airplanes for lower wages than would've been attanted by a major pay scale. Mesa pilots fly the same airplanes we do, but for money that is far inferior to what we make. (not to mention work rules). The choice to fly for mesa is exactly that...a choice...the pilots who signed up, knew exactly what they were getting into. Above all, the even more simple fact is, is that the legacy carrier pilots are just as much to blame for how the industry has turned, as the regionals. The cards were played by the legacy guys when they refused to fly the RJs, it's that simple. |
Why don't you get me a bug wash or a lav dump instead of a prognostication on the industry...
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Originally Posted by andy171773
(Post 355586)
I think the point was being made against the lowest of the low regionals. I compare Mesa to "decent regionals" as "decent regionals" are seen by majors.
Regional pilots fly 50-76 seat airplanes for lower wages than would've been attanted by a major pay scale. Mesa pilots fly the same airplanes we do, but for money that is far inferior to what we make. (not to mention work rules). The choice to fly for mesa is exactly that...a choice...the pilots who signed up, knew exactly what they were getting into. Above all, the even more simple fact is, is that the legacy carrier pilots are just as much to blame for how the industry has turned, as the regionals. The cards were played by the legacy guys when they refused to fly the RJs, it's that simple.
Originally Posted by chitownpilot
(Post 355565)
So tell me... how else are we supposed to get time for the SUPPOSEDLY awesome legacy airlines in this country WITHOUT working for the regionals??? DO NOT SAY MILITARY.
Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 355568)
Yes we all know the Legacies love those Baron and Navajo 135 pilots with no Military or 121 time, don't they. Their ground schools and seniority lists are full of them.
Note sarcasm. |
I was speaking about N2rotations post
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Originally Posted by andy171773
(Post 355616)
I was speaking about N2rotations post
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Excellent post! All should take note and we could improve life for all of us. It won't happen over night, but the path should be clear and we al should stay on a path of education and persistence.
Originally Posted by DsrtAV8R
(Post 354560)
Wrong...the pilot group themselves.
Granted, yes we have an atrocious group of upper-level management, but the pilot group has such a tremendous lack of respect for itself...making it nearly impossible for a rock-solid, stand-up-for-itself sort of a union to develop. It is this deep sense of low-morale that is the true root of our lack of ability to fight. We do not show up to work and think everything is peachy keen with the way we are treated and how the operation runs. True, there are rookie FO's out there that are uneducated about the fundamentals/economics of the industry...they are at EVERY carrier; not just Mesa. Yes, we have a tendancy to pick up some pilots that are just UNABLE to get jobs at the other carriers for various reasons, the majority of new FO's are just as green and uneducated about the industry as the new hires at XJT, SkyWest, Republic...and the list goes on. We at Mesa just have and unusually difficult job of showing new-hires that these conditions are not what it's all about. We have to educate them about the cultures at other carriers and what we DON'T have at Mesa. This is a daunting task that is easier said then done. The most common conversation in any Mesa flight deck is about the problems which we face and what needs to be done to fix them; however, respect for one's self, career, and work enviroment is what really needs to be preached. These qualities are prominent amongst the pilots leading solid MEC's. You may ask: "Well, why haven't these people stepped forward at Mesa to lead the union?" Good leaders have become statistics of vicious attrtion at our company; therefore, the union leadership turns over on a fairly regular basis and we are back at square-one. The attitude has to change: Don't try and burn it down, fight to make it better place to work and have a career. That's a key dfiference between Mesa and other regional airlines: You can make a life-long career at other regional airlines if you choose to do so. I'm not saying we don't any pilots at Mesa who have chosen to do so, but these are the guy/gals that are key to changing the company...people who are here for the rest of their aviation careers who have the respect for themselves, career, and family and want to make Mesa a better place to work (for long term) Until we get union leadership that is constructive and understands the importance of EDUCATION...nothing will change. If we build on those two very important qualities...unity will increase and the level of agressiveness will pick up dramatically. With all this comes standing up to management and BALLS. Wishing and publicly rooting for a company to put its pilots on the streets and going out of business is absolutely rediculous. We should all have each other's backs in our fights versus management and should be preaching unity amongst each other and figuring out solutions to the current issues we ALL face. The mentality on this forum is sometimes very disturbing ..."my regional is better than yours" and "this company deserves to go out of business" and "that pilot group sucks." If this type of attitude continues, the future of the regional segment of the airline industry may not be so bright. |
Originally Posted by DsrtAV8R
(Post 354560)
Wrong...the pilot group themselves.
Granted, yes we have an atrocious group of upper-level management, but the pilot group has such a tremendous lack of respect for itself...making it nearly impossible for a rock-solid, stand-up-for-itself sort of a union to develop. It is this deep sense of low-morale that is the true root of our lack of ability to fight. We do not show up to work and think everything is peachy keen with the way we are treated and how the operation runs. True, there are rookie FO's out there that are uneducated about the fundamentals/economics of the industry...they are at EVERY carrier; not just Mesa. Yes, we have a tendancy to pick up some pilots that are just UNABLE to get jobs at the other carriers for various reasons, the majority of new FO's are just as green and uneducated about the industry as the new hires at XJT, SkyWest, Republic...and the list goes on. We at Mesa just have and unusually difficult job of showing new-hires that these conditions are not what it's all about. We have to educate them about the cultures at other carriers and what we DON'T have at Mesa. This is a daunting task that is easier said then done. The most common conversation in any Mesa flight deck is about the problems which we face and what needs to be done to fix them; however, respect for one's self, career, and work enviroment is what really needs to be preached. These qualities are prominent amongst the pilots leading solid MEC's. You may ask: "Well, why haven't these people stepped forward at Mesa to lead the union?" Good leaders have become statistics of vicious attrtion at our company; therefore, the union leadership turns over on a fairly regular basis and we are back at square-one. The attitude has to change: Don't try and burn it down, fight to make it better place to work and have a career. That's a key dfiference between Mesa and other regional airlines: You can make a life-long career at other regional airlines if you choose to do so. I'm not saying we don't any pilots at Mesa who have chosen to do so, but these are the guy/gals that are key to changing the company...people who are here for the rest of their aviation careers who have the respect for themselves, career, and family and want to make Mesa a better place to work (for long term) Until we get union leadership that is constructive and understands the importance of EDUCATION...nothing will change. If we build on those two very important qualities...unity will increase and the level of agressiveness will pick up dramatically. With all this comes standing up to management and BALLS. Wishing and publicly rooting for a company to put its pilots on the streets and going out of business is absolutely rediculous. We should all have each other's backs in our fights versus management and should be preaching unity amongst each other and figuring out solutions to the current issues we ALL face. The mentality on this forum is sometimes very disturbing ..."my regional is better than yours" and "this company deserves to go out of business" and "that pilot group sucks." If this type of attitude continues, the future of the regional segment of the airline industry may not be so bright. Philosophically I agree with most of this, but I have to admit that mesa's continued existence causes me some heartache. The pilots are more victims than anything, but I feel they are mostly helpless to improve anything, especially now. Most of them, including my friends, would be better off not working there...even if they don't realize it. The company recently made a few tentative steps to improve pilot conditions, but only after suffering 50% attrition in 2007...it wasn't the mesa pilots who made that happen, it was the lamas. The pilot supply/demand equation will probably swing in ornstein's favor shortly, and like he always says..."If I have a stack of resumes, I'm paying pilots too much". I've worked at real companies (in and out of avaition), and it's deeply disturbing to me to think that a guy like JO might be able prosper by running an organiztion the way he does...it doesn't bode well for America, much less the airline biz. Only liquidation or drastic reorganization will fix the disease that is MAG. And if you're never worked there...you probably can't really understand how bad it is. |
Back in 1993, when Orville, Wilbur, and I worked at Suburban/Alleghney Commuter/USAir Express (all one-in-the same), we, as a wholly-owned subsidary of USAir handed them a 95%+ strike vote and intended on walking.
Although unconfirmed, we had heard that USAir contracted to Florida Gulf (MESA) to sit in hotel rooms on the eve of the strike to fly our routes the next day. However, <factual evidence> the strike was averted we were awarded a fair contract and USAir in turn farmed out 1/2 of our flying and every First Officer received a furlough notice and half the Capts. downgraded to the right seat. Where did all that flying go to ? You guessed it Florida Gulf-Mesa Airlines. I spent almost 5 years at a commuter airline and never upgraded, while I watched my job and upgrade farmed out to someone that could do it cheaper than I. Grumble Grumble..I knew I should've had a V-8, FF |
Vacations are canceled AGAIN through May. No soup for you.
:mad: |
Well, if things keep going the way they did this last week @ Mesa, we might all have vacation by May...
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Originally Posted by The Duke
(Post 356517)
Well, if things keep going the way they did this last week @ Mesa, we might all have vacation by May...
:mad::mad::mad: |
Originally Posted by DsrtAV8R
(Post 355169)
I currently work at Mesa. If you guys are talking in terms of credit hours, I will tell you right now it is entirely too easy to bill the company for at least 110 hours per bid period (and keep in mind we have 13 of them). This is happening across the board. I've flown with numerous guys billing out 130-140 credit hours a month. Granted, yes, horrible quality of life and wreckless regard for the pilot group; however, a large majority of our pilots are captializing financially on the current situation. Just my two cents.
Good Grief......Enjoy fllying then....Good for you....And never complain about working at that place......... |
Originally Posted by crewdawg52
(Post 356603)
Good Grief......Enjoy fllying then....Good for you....And never complain about working at that place.........
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