I would just like to thank who ever wrote that for making those of us who go to flight schools look like even bigger *******s and flaming douche bags:mad: .
I'm gonna get raped for going here. Oh well; at least I know it's coming.

Hey, just don't end up like me...broke and jobless. I'm so broke, I can't afford a crash pad even if I do get a job. Save your money for the after training/getting started expenses. Even a prison inmate gets 3 squares a day and an unlimited gym membership for free.

"We have all worked really hard to get where we are and are willing to work just as hard to reach a level that some would view as "enough time to be worthy"

I keep hearing how hard MAPDer's work and how much effort they put in. That's great. But how does that hard work in the classroom, CRJ sim, and limited flight training, make you competent to be a 121 jet F/O at 300 hours? That's the thing, you won't have the level of experience SOME Mesa capts would like to see. Others don't mind babysitting you until you have 200 or 300 hours in the right seat and somewhat get it figured out. Your company and the FAA could care less, you meet their standard. But some of us out in the real world just flat out expect more out of the guy sitting next to us. That's based on our backgrounds and experiences and the crazy things we've seen out on the line.

So what is the best way to break into the industry without 'being one of those guys'? It dosen't sound like most of you actual airline pilots out there think much of MAPD (or any other fast track programs). Which guys make the best (no babysitting) f/o? Is those that have been instructing the last 2-3 years to build hours? It is a scary thought having 300 or even 600 hours guys sitting in the right seat of a jet. From your guys (actual airline pilots) experiance what is the magic number of hours that the competent (again no babysitting) newbie f/o have?

Well one of my first instructors many moons ago who had a ton of hours, did the CFI route, wasn't babysat, and would be considered by some high time captains as the type they would love to fly with is now pushing up daisies because he deviated from the prescribed LOC approach minimums in low vis conditions and took 13 people with him. I have the upmost respect for ALL pilots and I will surely be humble as a baby F/O but if you think the MPD'ers are handed it all, think again. Sure some skate by but most don't.

I hope nobody is arguing that *all* pilots coming out of flight factories are lesser aviators or people. I got some friends in CAPT (Matty P. we'll call him for this example) who work really hard and get as much out of the program as they could. They're great pilots. Albeit, we all come out of the shop with hardly any real world experience compared to all the pilots out there, but that doesn't necessarily make us bad pilots or bad people. Just inexperienced.

I came out of CAPT, and I have no experience in 121 operations. I walked out of CAPT not feeling confident about my skills behind a jet, even though the FAA says I passed their standards with that DC-9 type rating. Then again, the FAA will give you enough rope to hang yourself with (as my former CFI like to tell me). By no means do I personally feel I am qualified to fly a jet despite what's displayed on that piece of plastic the FAA issued me.

Everybody gets babysat a little, it's just that the wider range of experiences you have as a pilot, the more you bring to the operation. Someone who's done some 135 freight is the best. Also, having a variety of experiences as a CFI is good. IFR, multi, different types.

Baby Sitting
 

Albeit, we all come out of the shop with hardly any real world experience compared to all the pilots out there, but that doesn't necessarily make us bad pilots or bad people. Just inexperienced.


Alright, the real difference with the "other guys" is that although they didn't know anymore than you PFT type's when they finished, they didn't go take 50 - 90 lives at a time into their hands at over 400 knots. If a captain on one of these flights was to become incapacitated with a malfunction of almost an major system (especially the autopilot) there would be a need for at least that many body bags...If there is enough left for even that.
These "other guys" are those that realized how little they really knew at the minimum time to be a commercial pilot. They are a few of the lucky that found out that most of the learning begins when they took the left seat and 1 life at a time into their hands on daily basis. This environment, although challenging provides a continually safe environement to FINISH their learning process.

XtremeF150

Well said...

I'm not following you here-'left seat, one life at a time, on a daily basis'-what are you talking about?