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Total Time and PIC time required to upgrade at most regionals
Any insight on this topic would be greatly appreciated. I have been told by a few people that low time pilots who are going to the regionals (i.e. 300-400 hrs) do not have enough PIC time to upgrade to CA when the time comes. Is their a PIC requirement to upgrade to CA, or is it just based off total time. Also, I have been told that you can log SIC time as 1/2 PIC. Is this true?
Thanks. |
Originally Posted by rickdb
(Post 360904)
Any insight on this topic would be greatly appreciated. I have been told by a few people that low time pilots who are going to the regionals (i.e. 300-400 hrs) do not have enough PIC time to upgrade to CA when the time comes. Is their a PIC requirement to upgrade to CA, or is it just based off total time. Also, I have been told that you can log SIC time as 1/2 PIC. Is this true?
Thanks. Depending on the company's need, it could range from the 1500-3000 TT with close to 1,000 in type. I believe most companies look for time closer to the 3,000 hour TT range. Beyond that it really depends on your seniority number, and how quick that number will make you eligible for upgrade. These days, it will probably be more likely that you will meet the hour/experience requirements a long time before your seniority number qualifies you for upgrade. |
With all flying comes down to two things:
Do you meet FAA mins? In this case ATP mins Do you meet Insurance mins? More important than the first question |
Most likely those 300-400 hr. guys/gals are not gonna meet the ATP mins, and you've got to be 23 y.o. as well
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Originally Posted by DeadHead
(Post 360907)
No, 1/2 PIC????? Somebody was trying to pull one over on you.
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Most airlines have upgrade/insurance requirements around 2000-3000 hrs total time with exceptions given for time in type/time with company.
For example if you have 1500TT and 1000 in company aircraft vs 3000 hrs and 250 in company aircraft. Beyond that, you need to meet all of the additional requirments of the ATP certificate. |
Originally Posted by rickdb
(Post 360904)
Also, I have been told that you can log SIC time as 1/2 PIC. Is this true?
Thanks.
Originally Posted by grossole
(Post 360913)
For ATP PIC requirements, you may substitue 1/2 of your SIC time as PIC.
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no you cant log it, but you can substitute it for the ATP REQUIREMENTS.... So it makes you elligible if you dont meet he PIC requirements from the hard numbers in your logbook
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Originally Posted by grossole
(Post 360913)
For ATP PIC requirements, you may substitue 1/2 of your SIC time as PIC.
To issue an ATP you need 250hr PIC. However, some airlines have agreements with the FAA to do more OE for the people without 250 PIC. |
Originally Posted by grossole
(Post 360913)
For ATP PIC requirements, you may substitue 1/2 of your SIC time as PIC.
For an ICAO ATP, you need 1200 hours PIC but you can SUBSTITUE two hours of 121 SIC for one hour of PIC (you still need some amount of real PIC). This means a low-timer will need 2500+ 121 SIC to qualify for ICAO ATP privileges. The ICAO ATP is not required for domestic US flying, but most jet regionals go to canada and/or mexico so most require ICAO times to upgrade. Most turboprop-only operators should not require this. |
Comair requires 3000TT 1000ME and 500 hours with the company.
And obviously any other pertinent ATP requirements. Like 23 years of age and of good moral character :) |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 360953)
Not for a US ATP. You need 250 hours of real PIC, period.
For an ICAO ATP, you need 1200 hours PIC but you can SUBSTITUE two hours of 121 SIC for one hour of PIC (you still need some amount of real PIC). This means a low-timer will need 2500+ 121 SIC to qualify for ICAO ATP privileges. The ICAO ATP is not required for domestic US flying, but most jet regionals go to canada and/or mexico so most require ICAO times to upgrade. Most turboprop-only operators should not require this. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 360953)
Not for a US ATP. You need 250 hours of real PIC, period.
For an ICAO ATP, you need 1200 hours PIC but you can SUBSTITUE two hours of 121 SIC for one hour of PIC (you still need some amount of real PIC). This means a low-timer will need 2500+ 121 SIC to qualify for ICAO ATP privileges. The ICAO ATP is not required for domestic US flying, but most jet regionals go to canada and/or mexico so most require ICAO times to upgrade. Most turboprop-only operators should not require this. Doesn't ANYbody read the regs anymore? FAR 61.159.a.4 (4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof |
Originally Posted by MuseumDriver
(Post 360986)
An FAA ATP is an ICAO ATP... To my knowledge there is only one "FAA ATP" and it is accepted around the world as an ICAO ATP.
FAR 61.159.d (d) An applicant may be issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the endorsement, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,” as prescribed by Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant: (1) Credits second-in-command or flight-engineer time under paragraph (c) of this section toward the 1,500 hours total flight time requirement of paragraph (a) of this section; (2) Does not have at least 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot, including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command time and none of his or her flight-engineer time; and (3) Otherwise meets the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section. (e) When the applicant specified in paragraph (d) of this section presents satisfactory evidence of the accumulation of 1,200 hours of flight time as a pilot including no more than 50 percent of his or her second-in-command flight time and none of his or her flight-engineer time, the applicant is entitled to an airline transport pilot certificate without the endorsement prescribed in that paragraph. |
Originally Posted by MuseumDriver
(Post 360986)
An FAA ATP is an ICAO ATP... To my knowledge there is only one "FAA ATP" issued in the United States and it is accepted around the world as an ICAO ATP.
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Thank god someone finally posted the reg. I hate it when people try to answer as if they know what they're talking about, when it takes less time to just go online and get the actual text of the regulation to post.
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Beyond the ATP mins, SkyWest requires 2500tt, 1000 multi, 1000 turbine, and 1000 in a crew environment. They will not waive or reduce this, and it's one of the reasons EMB upgrade goes junior as alot don't meet the minimums.
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Originally Posted by nicholasblonde
(Post 361012)
Thank god someone finally posted the reg. I hate it when people try to answer as if they know what they're talking about, when it takes less time to just go online and get the actual text of the regulation to post.
Since you are at Pinnacle, you might find this information useful: "Note: Minimum of 250 hours, PIC time, required for Pinnacle Airlines to issue ATP certificate." Pinnacle doesn't count SIC acting as PIC, towards the 250 hours PIC time. |
Is this really an issue? Who doesn't have 250 hours of legitimate PIC?
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Originally Posted by SharkAir
(Post 361104)
Is this really an issue? Who doesn't have 250 hours of legitimate PIC?
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Have any of these guys actually upgraded yet?
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Originally Posted by SharkAir
(Post 361113)
Have any of these guys actually upgraded yet?
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When I upgraded at Air Wisconsin last summer, I had 128 hours of PIC in my logbook. There was some kind of limitation on my certificate at first, but was rapidly removed. Also, I could not fly to Canada at first.
Also, when I upgraded I had almost 4000 hours total time and about 3700 SIC. I now have about 560 hours of PIC. |
Well that doesn't sound so bad. Plus, one would assume that with 4000 hours you'd be a competent pilot, PIC or not.
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Originally Posted by SharkAir
(Post 361104)
Is this really an issue? Who doesn't have 250 hours of legitimate PIC?
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Originally Posted by SharkAir
(Post 361141)
Well that doesn't sound so bad. Plus, one would assume that with 4000 hours you'd be a competent pilot, PIC or not.
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Originally Posted by saab2000
(Post 361143)
I did not. I was part of a European Ab Initio program back in the 90s and was hired over there with 260 hours total time and just over 100 hours of PIC. It happens. Never instructed or flew cancelled checks or any of that usual stuff.
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Originally Posted by SharkAir
(Post 361162)
Now don't get me started on Europe.
Anyway, not trying to pick an argument. I was just commenting on how it is possible to upgrade in the US with low PIC time, which I had. I still don't have very much..... |
Originally Posted by boilerpilot
(Post 360991)
Doesn't ANYbody read the regs anymore? Quote: FAR 61.159.a.4 (4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof Some airlines have programs to accomplish this, but if your company doesn't you can't just go declare yourself the "acting PIC". |
Originally Posted by MuseumDriver
(Post 360986)
An FAA ATP is an ICAO ATP... To my knowledge there is only one "FAA ATP" issued in the United States and it is accepted around the world as an ICAO ATP.
This is nothing new or obscure...every large jet regional in the US has this issue. |
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