What will happen to RAH's 170s with F9?
 

Just out of curiosity, and certainly wishing the best to the Frontier folks, but if they don't make it through, what will happen to the 170's that RAH has in that system? Will they trade paint and go into another system? Will they go back to the leasing party?

I figure you guys would be able to put them in service with Delta or United...thoughts?........

Delta will probably not hesitate to grab them.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, they seem to be a great demand this days. If the worse happens I do hope they find homes for those frames.

On a similar note, what will happen to all the CRJs for SkyWest when Midwest goes under? (Not that they necessarily will, but they seem to be the weak link for SkyWest stability.)

On a third note what happens to Lynx?

I didn't even think about that. Wow, this could get ugly for some folks. All the best to them.

We'll have plenty of demand for those excess airframes when Mesa goes under. RAH cant' get them fast enough right now.

This credit card company issue is interesting. I hope it works out well for the great people at Frontier/Lynx and for that matter, Republic

With MidEx's latest moves, they might need Skywest to get some 900s painted blue and the cookie ovens installed. In four years when the contract is up, I can't see TPG reupping right before they will be able to dismantle MidEx (...er, give first rights to NWA)

RAH is air frame short. I don't know what the future holds but with UAL and Delta wanting more frames I can see them finding homes. However Chapter 11 is not the end for F9. I don't know where they can go from here but hopefully RAH keeps getting paid.

Lets hope not...with Midex furloughing it would be a shame to do this.

Though Delta wants to cut Domestic Capacity, so I'm not sure that more aircraft are in the immediate plans.

Now if there is a merger, well then I think there would be a demand for them as they could unfortunately be used to replace some DC-9's

I wouldnt be too worried about F9 going under. They went under CH 11 so that they could continue operating. Now alot has to do with how well they do the restructuring. Mesaba did the same type of thing in 04 and it supposedly worked out really well. Course with the state of things no one really knows... It could all end tomorrow.. :confused:

Mesaba's Bk was a sham...so was Comair's

Taking a 5% paycut and furloughing 220+ pilots...your definition of "worked out really well" is not the same as mine.

Yeah, great move. Let's take reasonably paid pilots' jobs and give them to a freaking 90 seat regional that's being flown by guys that are getting paid what should be 50 seat wages.

Mainline flying being shifted to regionals doesn't help any of us and this is coming from a regional driver.

That being said don't you think the 170s and 175s should be flown by mainline pilots? I think US Airways did it right with the 190s. I believe Air Canada pilots fly their 170s or 175s.

Doesn't republic fly 86 seat jets?

No, they fly 76 seat jets. I too believe they should be mainline airplanes. CR9 and E175 are not regional airplanes, especially given the routes they operate. ATL-COS and ATL-TUS are NOT regional airline routes. Having these aircraft at the regional level hurts us all, as this means fewer job opportunities at the majors.

Mesa flys 80-something seat jets for US. They are high density configured CR9's...yet again, airplanes that I would prefer to see operated at the mainline level.

Yes, all of the 175's at Republic Airlines are 86 seats. The 170's at Airways are 76 and I think the planes at F9 are 72 seats.

E175 vs Crj900

So why is it that I always here the EMB should be at mainline and never hear anyone crying foul on the CRJ 900 ...is it because a) that the engines are under the wings or, b) that you can stand up in the isle with out hitting your head. Either way its 86 seat seats!

PS: I'll get right on getting them flying at mainline, as if any of us have anything to do with any of that!

The 170 and crj 700 hold the same, why are you not giving up your seat for the mainline pilot that ****es and moans about flying a little airplane?

You are in for a long carrier of disappointment if you think you will ever see either of these aircraft at a mainline carrier. I agree it makes for a better future but until we all, I said ALL say no then nothing will ever happen about it.

For the F9 birds, they will stay at F9. They should be able to restructure. If not they will take a short trip to PHX where they will start backfilling the gaping hole Mesa will leave at the airport, or possibly IAH when the senior part of CALs pilot group gets something they want in exchange for selling out the guys on the bottom of the list by releasing the scope. Then they will go to Houston and Cleveland along with the 75 options we have for 190s.

Before you flip out this is not what I want, but what I could see happening. If you can't see it, you should get your medical pulled cause your blind.

what I meant was that it seems that the airline seems pretty stable now and if I understand correctly it wasn't owned by nwa before. Furloughs and paycuts are never a good thing, but they are still around

yeah ask my boyfriend how well the furloughing went in 2004..... real well :mad:

I doubt that. DAL has always preferred CRJ9 over E175 in the past due to speed and fuel efficiency and I do not see them wanting E170.

I agree with Ramen.

That's odd, they just ordered more 175s with two class configurations last year. What they do is anybody's guess. Moving those airplanes from F9 to DAL would be a big headache for RAH though. You are talking about displacements then since F9 is flown by RW and DAL is S5 due to scope clauses. It'd be a big training headache for Bedford.

I would happily give up my seat to a mainline pilot. In fact, AA pilots originally operated AE's CR7's. The 700 is a decent size airplane. Too big for a regional jet. DL routes our airplanes as if they were MD88. In the DFW days they would have us fly routes such as DFW-SAN, DFW-DCA, etc.

And no, I am not in for a disappointing career. I was simply stating that I would prefer to see aircraft of these sizes at the mainline level. They are not, and thats just how it goes.

Unfortunately, its much cheaper for mainline carriers to outsource flying to the regional level. That is the root cause of the existence of airlines such as Mesa, GoJet, etc. That is why I believe the demise of Mesa will do us no good, because there will be another bottom feeder out there ready to get as much business as possible at whatever cost is necessary. The problem is, the next one has the potential to be MUCH worse...

But thats a whole different story for another day.

I was referring to DAL not wanting E170. Don't care about whether RAH wants them or not. DAL has not ordered any E 170s or E175 to my knowledge for anyone, and if they did, they will cancel that order now that the price of oil has reached $120/barrel and keeps going up. NWA is having a second thought about E175s they have on order for Compass. They are testing between Mesaba CRJ9 and Compass E175 to see which one is more cost effective, and I've been told so far CRJ9 is winning out.

The CR9 is 40% more efficient at the barberpole than its E170/175 counterparts. The E170, at 40% less efficient, carries 6 fewer passengers than the CR9, which equates to less revenue at higher costs. This is why DL is moving to an all E175 fleet with S5 in the near future.

Speaking of that, anyone know when the DL transition to the 175 will commence?

DAL contracted with RAH to fly additional 175s for them. The deliveries start later this year. RAH buys the airplanes and then operates them for the codeshare. DAL will not actually buy the aircraft as they have for other deals.

That is true, but your next sentence does not make any sense. If CRJ9 is more efficient why would DAL move towards E175 fleet for regionals?

Also, if DAL merges with NWA, don't count on DAL contract with RAH going through. Thta is the word I'ver heard directly from several DAL pilots. DAL will in all likelihood spread regional flying between Comair, Pinnacle and another regional.

But wait...I never got furloughed by Mesaba! ;)

Sorry about that. I should have worded my post a lot better.

I only was referring to DL replacing S5's E170's with E175. Six more seats for the same fuel efficiency. I was not referring to the CR9 fleet; they are here to stay.

A 5yr CA at RAH on the 175 makes about $300 less a month than a 5yr 190 Captain at US Airways. So who's done what right?

Delta wants to cut their domestic capacity. They aren't talking about regional markets. They might actually increase E-jets

What are you getting at Duck? At 12yrs a RAH Cpt makes a dollar more than a 12 year US air pilot. RAH Cpt tops at 119 an hour, Airways tops at 95 year ten. Keep in mind there are very few ten year captains at US Air.

Don't forget that RAH payscale includes a 99 seat 190/5.

For what its worth I'd rather of seen 170's at mainline. I'd rather of never seen crj900's. You and I have Zero control over any of that, never did. Airways pilots IMHO should of NEVER given up mid atlantic. They did not have much choice with Mesa 900's on the block.

What erks me is that everyone is crying effiency yet air canada makes money on 175's. Enough to pay there pilots properly! 3rd year FO $60. Capt $114 And we are talking about an industry leading contract, we'll see. :rolleyes:

It maybe a small difference if we are talking about just the hourly rate x guarantee. How long have the Airways 190s been on property? I'm going to assume not as long as Republic has had 170/175s. I'm quite certain the Airways 190 pay will be going up if the airline doesn't tear itself apart. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that US Airways probably has better workrules too.

Lets also keep in mind the USAirways has other larger airplanes that pay more money than the 190, as the 190 is the entry level aircraft at US but is the largest equipment at RAH. Potential for career advancement is a huge factor here. Sure, a 12 year RAH captain makes more than a US 190 Captain, but who has the last laugh when the US captain moves over to the 320, 757, and eventually 330. The RAH captain has nowhere else to go.

the DC3 was mainline once too - 21 to 29 seats. look at the fleet histories of the majors. do you see a trend or a conspiracy? it's simple economics, the sub 100 seat flying is not going to the mainline and nobody laments this more than I.

Depends... are there any 5-year captains flying the 190 at US Airways? Which of the airlines is more stable?

As was said above, Airways 190 rates don't matter much since people don't stay put there. Most of the FO's bid up to Group 2 aircraft as soon as possible after their first year seat lock.