Originally Posted by Senior Skipper (Post 362347)

what's PRP?

Originally Posted by flyguyniner11 (Post 362353)

had an fo just put the gear down on his own cause i was on the radio for like two seconds talkin to tower, his excuse was we were getting too close, ( we were like on a 7 mile final)

Originally Posted by TheProfessionalPilot (Post 362358)

LoL that's awesome, must have had an adrenaline rush from the aircraft carrier approach.... :rolleyes: haha

Originally Posted by PCLCREW (Post 362371)

Things happen fast at 160kts :cool:

Originally Posted by WhizWheel (Post 362454)

Oh man I'm not touchin' this one with a ten foot pole................

Originally Posted by flyguyniner11 (Post 362353)

had an fo just put the gear down on his own cause i was on the radio for like two seconds talkin to tower, his excuse was we were getting too close, ( we were like on a 7 mile final)

Originally Posted by Flyboy8784 (Post 362488)

Hahahaha....I got one for ya.....I flew with a Captain in DCA almost a year ago. I was on reserve and got a 4 day trip. I had the airplane all set up before the Capt. and FA showed up.

The Capt. says "Alex....I really dont fee like doing anything this week...so you're gonna play Captain...You brief the weather....make PA's and everything else....You're gonna do the taxiing too...if you need to turn tight just say "Tiller" and ill give it to you...all im doing is signing the release"

Needless to say....it made for an interesting trip. The guy was a major
D-Bag. If i'd of known better at the time or maybe wasnt brand new, i would have called Pro Standards. No one would have cared either....I dont know anyone who actually likes flying with the guy

Originally Posted by dojetdriver (Post 362501)

I've had a couple guys do that too during the EXACT same situation. Two just drop the gear because they saw fit and I was off the radio telling the FA to be seated, the other just put his own flaps in.



I see what you are saying and I agree. However, when I was close to upgrade, guys that I flew with told me the same thing. I didn't go all three and half stripes on them, but I gladly accepted their invite to make decisions, make the PA's, interface with the ground crew for push and start, get first dibs on the release to look at the WX, etc. When the time comes for YOU to upgrade and the CA offers the same thing, I'd take him up on it.

The funny thing is, I have offered it to a few FO's that were about to upgrade. One of them told me, "no thanks, I'm sure I'll learn it all when I go to class".

I thought, "OK".

Originally Posted by dojetdriver (Post 362501)

The funny thing is, I have offered it to a few FO's that were about to upgrade. One of them told me, "no thanks, I'm sure I'll learn it all when I go to class".

I thought, "OK".

Originally Posted by Flyboy8784 (Post 362552)

No definately you are right....I came to the 121 world already a Capt. on another plane. So it didnt bother me at all. But at the same time, i was still pretty new...and im sure this isnt the first time it has happened. All it takes for him is try it again with a really green FO...and bad things could happen

Originally Posted by TheProfessionalPilot (Post 362350)

But no, seriously if he's going to do that he needs to brief you on it, not tell you that at 50'

Originally Posted by cbire880 (Post 362610)

If the CA is off making PA's or radio calls and I need some configuration change quickly (happens a lot during cleanup to departure), I'll make a hand signal and follow it up verbally when they get back. Works out fine. There is nothing that requires you to act that quickly. It irritates me when CA's get their hand up on the gear when they decide its time to put the gear down on my leg. I hate it even more when they just decide to put the gear down. If you really want it down that bad, ask what I think about putting the gear down.

Originally Posted by BrewMaster (Post 362643)

Failing to see the connection. So flying patterns in a C-172 for another 500 hours will make a difference?

How bout just saying any new FO who has never flown in that environment...

Originally Posted by ERJ Driver (Post 362572)

Naw dude... the point of CRM SOP and any other alphabet soup you can think of is to mitigate mistakes and error chains that lead to accidents. No amount of briefing can excuse violating SOP intentionally. I'd like to fly with that guy too... on a line check.
:eek:

Originally Posted by andy171773 (Post 362684)

The 300 hour wonders have ABSOLUTELY NO real CRM experience. If you get/have your CFI, you'll learn the law of primacy, and come to realize that if a 300 hour pilot gets put into a despicable CRM situation...said 300 hour pilot will think that's the way things should be done/can be done/"i can get away with this if he can".

CFIng is a tool, because you ARE actually the PIC. Especially with new primary students. CRM should be developed there.

There is a fine line between a captain doing the right thing for his "almost upgrading FO" and a captain being disturbingly lazy. In the busy airspace that is the U.S. that basically brings a jet to single pilot ops...no excuse, and unacceptable in my book.

Originally Posted by BrewMaster (Post 362734)

I know what you're saying, , but the post is about a captain being disturbingly lazy, and somehow it's the 300 hour wonders fault. Let's point the blame where it needs to be pointed and stop with the 300 hour wonder excuse everytime something needs to be addressed.

Originally Posted by BrewMaster (Post 362734)

I know what you're saying, , but the post is about a captain being disturbingly lazy, and somehow it's the 300 hour wonders fault. Let's point the blame where it needs to be pointed and stop with the 300 hour wonder excuse everytime something needs to be addressed.

Originally Posted by mccube5 (Post 362753)

you're completely missing his point, and hes making a great point.

he is not criticizing the 300 pilot at all, merely pointing out that he's human. the new FO is learning and is easily taught good or bad habits. this is an example of a CA teaching all the wrong habits that can be easily repeated later on.

Originally Posted by flyguyniner11 (Post 362353)

had an fo just put the gear down on his own cause i was on the radio for like two seconds talkin to tower, his excuse was we were getting too close, ( we were like on a 7 mile final)

Originally Posted by TheProfessionalPilot (Post 362713)

All I am saying is that if they ARENT going to do standard, I'm not saying it's right, they just need to tell you, hey man, i'm not going to pull you're gear, you do it! That way they aren't figuring this out at 50' while receiving a birdstrike. I'm not saying it's right, but it's less wrong... what do you think?? His time will come to talk to standards...

Originally Posted by ERJ Driver (Post 363387)

Yea, I see what you are saying now; I tried PRO a couple of times but it doesn't seem to do any good. I just call the CP now. On a related topic, I'm kinda fed up with newbie ego in the guise of laziness or even "professionalism". If the procedure was supposed to be done a certain way, the book would have it down that way. Don't be pushing buttons and grabbing gear in MY ship outside of SOP. Ya do that, and you are gonna git "slapped". The flight deck has the appearance of a democracy, but in the end the CA is the king and the FO is the help. In our post 1970's CRM environment I think the pendulum has swung a little too far. Time to bring it back the other direction. Get on the bus, or get into the CP office for the carpet dance. I'm done with PRO.
:cool::rolleyes::p

Originally Posted by ExperimentalAB (Post 363461)

Something I've noticed - it is usually the quirky or egotistical FO that upgrades into a pain-in-the-butt Captain. Most guys are surprised that a decent FO they flew with grew into a dirtbag Captain.

That's a bit distressing to me - knowing that I am one of the "quirkiest" around (least that's what I'm told LoL)...I'll quit the industry before I become known as one of those guys! Any recently-upgraded Captains on here that can share their experience in becoming the Captain they'd like to fly with?

Originally Posted by sigep_nm (Post 363449)

When I grow up I hope I can be as good of a pilot as you

Originally Posted by freezingflyboy (Post 363473)

Nah...you'll just be that obnoxious captain who swears off the automation and wants to do everything the hard way. I can just hear it now: "Use the autopilot for the Cat II!? You still wearing a diaper too, son?" "Why get a cab?! The hotel is only 6 miles away! Lets hoof it ya pansies! I'll even wear the FAs heels!":D

Originally Posted by ERJ Driver (Post 363674)

Ok, all it takes is the maturity of an adult and halfway decent stick skills. See ya in 20-30 years!
;)