Wondering about me? I have never been to an interview and not been offered a job. I actually have a standing offer that I will take when my family circumstances improve. I'm not bitter, if that's what you're getting at. I'm actually one of the lucky exceptions. But I know that I'm VERY lucky and not everyone will have the same opportunities so I try to provide realistic info to people who are trying to make realistic career decisions. My advice is based on the composite experiences of lots of professional pilots who I know. Some of the readers here don't know any professional pilots at all, so maybe the info will be of use.

 

Thanks for trying Baja, but what can you say to a 22 year old that knows it all. He's got the plan except for the furloughs, pay cuts, and going up against 5000 other guys for the same job. After he walks the street a few times wondering how to feed the family and hoping to not have to move again maybe the light bulb will click.

 

After reading all this I have to wonder why ANYONE would pick this job. Do you all really love flying THAT much? I have recently come to terms with the fact that I do not. The sacrifices don't seem worth the 'ultimate' payoff of flying for the majors, which isn't even a sure thing: ridiculously low pay for the first few (or more) years, being away from family for half the month, sitting in a cockpit monitoring systems for hours on end, worrying about furloughs, not being able to switch companies and keep your status, pay cuts, etc, etc

With that said, I do love flying, but I'm talking about taking up family and friends in an Arrow for a short day trip to somewhere fun. The majority of posters here make it seem like a horrible career, but justify it with their "love of flying."

 

Thats my point exactly Uncle Bose. These people profess to love flying so much and yet the dter people from pursuing it.

 

I got an idea. Why doesn't everyone who HATES flying as much as they portray it on this board just quit their job. If you really HATE it that much. I could work as a CFII for the rest of my life and LOVE the hell out of it. Make more than the average american too at age 22.

The FACT is that you have provided me with NO FACTS that show my plan is flawed? Do you have any facts? Better yet, do you have any ways that I can be better prepared for the (Pay cuts, furloughs, etc...). By all means, I want to hear EVERYONE's mistakes so I can better prepare for them.

I am sick and tired of hearing people tell me how damn BAD flying is. If you hate your job so much, just quit. If you think my plan is flawed, tell me how it is flawed and what I can do to increase my chances.
Enough said.

 

I like my job, but I fly with many folks who don't but seem unwilling to make the effort switch careers. Well, lately more folks have been actualling doing that. I just want everyone to understand that there are significany challanges in pay, quality of life, and stability. But if you REALLY enjoy flying that won't matter.

I also have an ulterior motive...I don't want some kid (in his infinite youthful wisdom) convincing himself that if he takes an airline job for $6/hour now that it will all pay off with huge $$$$ in the end. There are no huge $$$$ left at the end, and that sort of misconception continues to undercut what's left of the industry. I want new pilots to realize that they are worth far more than they are actually being paid so that they are less likely to work now for a payoff later...the leaders of this industry will happily take your "work now", but they will immediately pocket your "payoff". When you get to the payoff point, it's allready been liquidated in chapter 11 or exercised as management stock options. These facts are free to be had by reading the newspapers.

 

If flying was really as bad as they say it is, then they wouldn't be doing it. If they can make more money at Burger King (as I have heard), then they would be there working there, instead of flying. I'm not saying it is the perfect career, because it certianly does have its flaws, but which career doesn't?

Every career has problems and those people complain about it too, just as happens here, its only natural for people to complain about whatever they can. Some times these people will realize its the wrong career for them, and thats fine. But to complain is the natural way of things, remember way back in school, the older grades would tell you how hard there grade was, how mean the teachers were, how unfair, etc. Some of it turned out to be true, some of it did not. There is truth to what these guys are saying, but there is also exagerration, just as in school (not that I'm calling you liars, since I can't make that conclusion, because I don't know any of you). But I think if you go in knowing it isn't perfect, knowing it will be tough, and knowing the problems with the career, you won't become disillusioned like others have with their careers. I think the main thing they are trying to say is "Don't think its perfect, don't think its easy, for we had made those mistakes when we were new like you."

If you go into a career because of the money, you will never be happy about it, no matter how much you make. I think too many people have gone with Aviation due to the high pay, and the esteem, and all the fiction that surrounds it, only to be let down because there expectations were too high, and they realize that they do not really enjoy flying, as a job.

Now in no way take this as an authoritative stance, I have not been paid to fly yet, and have low time, these are just my thoughts on what is happening, and could easily be wrong, since I haven't acutally expeirenced it myself. (<-----My way of covering my a$$)

 

N6724G and Mike B525, the airline industry could use more folks like you. I spent over 10 years in the business world before switching to a pilot career and have loved every minute of it. The schooling, the instructing and the line flying. Pilots who think that there are 9 to 5 , 40 hour a week jobs paying $70,000/ year have their head in the clouds No, the pay does not start out great. But what entry level job does?

I've worked desk jobs where I saw my family less than I do with an airline. If only I were independently wealthy and didn't have to work at all, but alas, work I must. This is the first and only career where I actually look forward to going to work. It has virtually no stress compared to other management positions I have had and when I walk off the plane and head home I have no stress at all. Not worried about quotas, proposals, contracts, or delegated responsibilities not being completed. All I have to worry about is what time I sign in three or four days from now. With this career, when you are off, you are really off. And I enjoy a career that has a combination of manual and intellectual skills. My product is a safe landing and every time a deliver one (even on a calm, sunny day) I feel good even if nobody else notices.

You do have to put up with a bunch of socialists who think that the almighty and all knowing worker should decide what we should fly (scope), when we should fly it (work rules), and how much we should be paid to fly it, despite the fact that they cannot name a single industry that has survived such nonsense. They look under their hotel room beds before they go to sleep to make sure the "management" boogey man isn't going to jump out. But like any discussion, if you find yourself in the cockpit with someone who disagrees with you on a topic, change the topic. I can always find common ground with another pilot, and bitching about my job is not it. They say polite conversation should not involve religion or politics, and union talk is a little of both. Just let people know that you enjoy your job, enjoy your pay, and have certainly had worse of both and change the subject. Plus, I think that the whiners really come out on these boards. Not so many in real life.

It's a good job, with good pay and benefits, and no matter how hard they try the union recruiters can't change my mind.

 

Thats one of the nicest compliments I've ever gotten. Thanks!

I can say that your sentiments are shared by my close friend at Continental. Even after the pay cuts and traumas, he's still in love with his job. Granted, though, his company is the healthiest of the Legacies. In his opinion, the industry has simply changed as the entire world has changed. He also told me that pilots have a tendency to whine. I suppose it's the old "A complaining (career field) is a happy (career field)". There are definently things that need to be worked out and the career cannot be cheapened too much as has been said. My close friend pointed out to me that the airline industry has always been an unstable one and that the starting positions were never ever highly paid. He doesn't hold any "scope animosity" towards the Continental Express pilots either. My friend never worked at a regional, but he did move to South Dakota and spent a time doing cheap turboprop charter work, before being hired to the the Air Force Reserve, and then going directly to Continental after 2 years of training. I know what you mean about regular work. I'm in college and I HATE doing my calculus homework and sitting through classes on stuff I don't care about. And to top it all off, my parents have to pay them for the privilege. At least at my job I get paid to do less stressful work (except during the holidays).

One of the first things I realized when I became an adult is that money does not equal happiness. Doesn't mean I'm willing to work for peanuts my entire life and it also doesn't mean I wouldn't love to be a millionaire. In a realistic sense I just want a more-than-livable salary with enough left over to own a small airplane. I have no desires at all for a family. I actually can't stand most of my family and don't see what good having one of my own could do. lol

 

I think you can take the payrates and go about 1000-1200 x that for the year (this will show perdiem, holiday pay, training pay, bonuses, plus maybe a little extra flying here or there). At least that's what my W-2s have shown over the years. Then you can subtract taxes, medical, disability insurance, 401(k), stock purchase to find take-home. That's about 30-35% for me (5% 401(k), 5% stock purchase, family medical and dental, short-term disability).