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Eagle Upgrade Time
What is it now? Friend wants to know.
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6/25/01 DOH is junior Saab CA, ATR is around 5/01, Jet is 9/00
Jr Saab CA is about 40 FOs from hitting the 2004 DOHs. |
How many are your hiring a month?
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upgrading* not hiring, jfc, APC needs an edit feature.
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Average vacancy bid has been for 20-30 CA slots per month.
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So upgrade at the end of this month will be realistically 4 years at Eagle, or less.
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Dude, all this stuff is like french to me...
How 'bout yerars estimate to upgrade in jet? Sorry for the ignorance, still learning here... |
ok, you beat me with the post, thanx!
Quick question here, wouldnt it make a difference how many hours total you have when you join AE? Wouldnt you reach the minimums faster? Cheers! |
You'll probably have at least 2000-2500 hours by the time you are 4 years at Eagle.
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Upgrades are done purely by seniority, unless someon above you doesnt meet the FAA ATP requiremnents. This is huge for people getting hired by Eagle now becuase their are a lot of new FO's that wont meet the ATP Mins. Particularly the PIC requirment. So in four to six years, if we are still around, there wil "some" upgrading out of turn. But it is done by senority first.
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You don't think someone will log 1500 hours in an ERJ in 4 years?
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Originally Posted by Flitestar
(Post 382495)
ok, you beat me with the post, thanx!
Quick question here, wouldnt it make a difference how many hours total you have when you join AE? Wouldnt you reach the minimums faster? Cheers! you wouldn't upgrade anyway until you senority can hold it regardless of hours hired at. So in other words since eagle upgrade time is longer everyone has above the required upgrade flight time by the time their respective senority can hold it. at an airline with short upgrade times, what your asking is true, it possible for someones senority to be able to hold captain before they have the hours in which case the company would go down the list until someone has enough hours. make sense, again this is not an issue at eagle and probably won't be at many places real soon. and also in the second situation, when the person who got skipped over for lack of hours upgrades, you will be back below them |
They will have a ton of SIC time yes. but FAA requires 250hrs PIC. if one got hired with less than say 400hs. theres no way they have 250PIC. Yes they will have the total time. but read the fine print of the ATP requirements.
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To quote a thread from Two years, and Two days ago,
Originally Posted by robotsapproach
(Post 35627)
The important thing regarding SIC time and the ATP certificate, is that ALL SIC time counts towards the 1500 TT as long as the airplane requires two pilots and it was conducted under 121 or 135 ops.
Here is a link to the FAA examiners manual which puts the regs into more easily understood language: http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/e...5/5_002_01.pdf A. Total Pilot Flight Hours. A minimum of 1,500 total pilot flight hours must have been accumulated by the applicant. The following types of flight experience may be credited toward the total pilot flight hour requirement: • All pilot-in-command (PIC) hours • All dual instruction received by the applicant • All flight time acquired as a second-in-command (SIC) in aircraft requiring at least two pilots by the approved airplane flight manual (AFM), airworthiness certificate, or in FAR Part 121 or 135 operations • For commercial pilots, up to 500 hours of flight engineer (FE) time acquired in FAR Part 121 operations (The FE time must have been acquired in an airplane requiring an FE. While acquiring these hours, the applicant must have held a commercial pilot certificate and been participating as a pilot or FE in a FAR Part 121 approved pilot training program. FE time may be credited at a rate of 1 hour of pilot time for each 3 hours of FE time. For example, if the applicant has accumulated 300 hours of FE time, 100 hours may be credited toward the 1,500 total pilot hour requirement.) B. Hours as PIC. The applicant must have accumulated at least 250 hours an PIC. SIC hours acquired while performing the duties of PIC under the supervision of a qualified PIC may be credited toward this requirement. C. Hours of Cross-Country. At least 500 flight hours must have been accumulated as a pilot in cross-country flight. Cross-country time is that time acquired during flight from a departure point to a destination point that is not the same as the departure point. It is also time acquired in a flight that is cross-country in nature even though the departure and destination points are the same (such as forestry patrol). D. Hours of PIC Cross-Country. At least 100 flight hours must have been accumulated as PIC while conducting cross-country flight. SIC hours while performing the duties of PIC under the supervision of a qualified PIC may be credited toward this requirement. E. Hours at Night. At least 100 hours must have been accumulated as a pilot at night. An applicant who has made over 20 night landings may thereafter substitute one additional night takeoff and landing to a full stop for 1 hour of nighttime. F. Hours as PIC at Night. At least 25 hours must have been accumulated as a PIC at night. SIC hours while performing the duties of PIC under the supervision of a qualified PIC may be credited toward this requirement. G. Instrument Hours. At least 75 hours must have been accumulated as a pilot in actual or simulated instrument conditions. Fifty hours of this time must have been in actual flight |
Originally Posted by BBflyer
(Post 382509)
you wouldn't upgrade anyway until you senority can hold it regardless of hours hired at. So in other words since eagle upgrade time is longer everyone has above the required upgrade flight time by the time their respective senority can hold it. at an airline with short upgrade times, what your asking is true, it possible for someones senority to be able to hold captain before they have the hours in which case the company would go down the list until someone has enough hours. make sense, again this is not an issue at eagle and probably won't be at many places real soon.
Ok, that makes sense. I new it sound familiar from somewhere. How about Comair?, do they follow the same procedure as AE? I know they also take a while to upgrade...Does the same apply there? So this means that other than AE, any of the other regionals, it really doenst matter how long people are upgrading to CA, if you join them with say 2500 TT, you should expect (in theory) a slightly higher upgrade time than average fort hat regional? (at least on paper, I understand the tough environment for Regionals know but, you know what I mean...) Cheers! |
Originally Posted by maveric311
(Post 382513)
They will have a ton of SIC time yes. but FAA requires 250hrs PIC. if one got hired with less than say 400hs. theres no way they have 250PIC. Yes they will have the total time. but read the fine print of the ATP requirements.
someone would have to get hired with VERY low hours for that to happen. cause basically any flying after you get your private and multi is usually logged as PIC (ie. instrument, commercial training recieved and intruction given all counts as PIC for this type of logging purpose) |
SIC hours acquired while
performing the duties of PIC under the supervision of a qualified PIC may be credited toward this requirement. This does not mean SIC 121 time. you are not performing the duties of a PIC. are you responsible for the aircraft and its crew? are you signing the release and asuring that all things are in order for the flight? NO. you are just performing the duties of the flying pilot. the 250 hrs is a solid number. credit is giving for SPIC (Supervised Pilot in Command) flight time according to the FAA, but remember some airlines have their own requirments for captains in addition to the FAA mins. you are not SPIC when you fly 121. you are are SIC. the time counts towards your TOTAL TIME REQUIRED (1500) but not towards the 250 hrs PIC REQUIRED. |
Originally Posted by BBflyer
(Post 382525)
someone would have to get hired with VERY low hours for that to happen. cause basically any flying after you get your private and multi is usually logged as PIC (ie. instrument, commercial training recieved and intruction given all counts as PIC for this type of logging purpose)
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Originally Posted by Airwaves
(Post 382488)
So upgrade at the end of this month will be realistically 4 years at Eagle, or less.
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Originally Posted by maveric311
(Post 382534)
right. and people are getting hired. Not many. but they are out there with only 200-220 hrs in an actual airplane with the rest coming in the sim. and yes the solo time during private and all instrumnet would count. but thats about 90hrs. then depening on how they got their commericial (ie multi first or multi-addon) there is a few more PIC hours. but the time they trained for the multi-dosnt count as PIC becuase they were not rated in category and class.
well I guess those people are going to have to rent a cessna and fly on days off between now and upgrade to get that 250...... crazy isn't it |
yeah, if they can afford it on their FO salary, which is doubtfull. I mean. fifty hours in a cessna is gonna run around 3-5 GRAND. and is renting a cessna a flying around in the patern realy gaining experince as pilot in command?
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This is the worst part of APC, idiots posting crap they don't understand, and someone chiming in, go rent a Cessna. gun2head
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I knew about the 250 hours of PIC required, but I had no idea about the 100 PIC XC, 75 PIC actual/simulated instrument, and 25 hours PIC at night.
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Originally Posted by Airwaves
(Post 382552)
This is the worst part of APC, idiots posting crap they don't understand, and someone chiming in, go rent a Cessna. gun2head
realy? what is exactly your expertise? are you a cfi? do you have any dual given? are you even a 121 pilot? have you gone through 121 training? flown with a check airmen? I'm dieing to know where you get off caling people idiots. "I knew about the 250 hours of PIC required, but I had no idea about the 100 PIC XC, 75 PIC actual/simulated instrument, and 25 hours PIC at night." A lot of people dont know about the fine print in th ATP requirements and think all they have to do is work for an airline and the company will give them the ATP when they upgrade. |
Originally Posted by maveric311
(Post 382558)
realy? what is exactly your expertise? are you a cfi? do you have any dual given? are you even a 121 pilot? have you gone through 121 training? flown with a check airmen? I'm dieing to know where you get off caling people idiots.
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Originally Posted by Airwaves
(Post 382552)
This is the worst part of APC, idiots posting crap they don't understand, and someone chiming in, go rent a Cessna. gun2head
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Airwave, you have something negative to say to everything. Be nice or stay silent.
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just a simple question.
your the prolem with APC my man. people are having an honest discussion on an issue and you start attacking people with name calling and unprofessional behavior. |
Oh excuse me for not blowing smoke up peoples rear ends, and being told I am incorrect by someone who is wrong.
texaspilot, you go on back to the PSA thread and keep throwing your brothers under the bus |
Originally Posted by maveric311
(Post 382549)
yeah, if they can afford it on their FO salary, which is doubtfull. I mean. fifty hours in a cessna is gonna run around 3-5 GRAND. and is renting a cessna a flying around in the patern realy gaining experince as pilot in command?
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Originally Posted by Airwaves
(Post 382580)
Oh excuse me for not blowing smoke up peoples rear ends, and being told I am incorrect by someone who is wrong.
texaspilot, you go on back to the PSA thread and keep throwing your brothers under the bus I said you were correct! SIC time counts towards the 1500 total time. but your assuming that you can get credit for PIC acting as SIC under part 121. Thats a stretch, my friend. |
Since we're on the subject, what is the difference between an FAA ATP and an ICAO ATPL.
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About $50k/year.
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something to mention: Eagle requires 3000 hrs total time before upgrade, so regardless of how fast the company is flowing, you won't be upgrading until you get that many. That may or may not change in the future.
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Originally Posted by Flitestar
(Post 382520)
How about Comair?, do they follow the same procedure as AE? I know they also take a while to upgrade...Does the same apply there?
So this means that other than AE, any of the other regionals, it really doenst matter how long people are upgrading to CA, if you join them with say 2500 TT, you should expect (in theory) a slightly higher upgrade time than average fort hat regional? (at least on paper, I understand the tough environment for Regionals know but, you know what I mean...) Cheers! The current batch of pilots in upgrade class hired in late 2002 and back then they probably had around 1500 hours just to get interviewed. If they averaged 80 hours a month, they'll have almost 7000 hours now. The 6-year upgrade time has nothing to do with Comair's hour requirements and everything to do with their shrinking fleet size. Any pilot group is 1/2 Captains and 1/2 FOs, so you don't upgrade until you're roughly halfway up the seniority list. That doesn't happen if you're the last guy hired, no matter how many years at the airline or how many hours in the airplane. And that's the way it is (for now) at Comair or Eagle. Fast upgrades at Mesaba, Compass, or CHQ are due to the fact that when your fleet doubles in size, the list below you grows quickly and you soon find yourself in the top half. Boomer |
Good info, thanx for the help Boomer.
FS |
Originally Posted by Airwaves
(Post 382456)
upgrading* not hiring, jfc, APC needs an edit feature.
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See, no one knows.
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A CA I flew with was trying to tell me the pic time from when you were with a CFI after private didn't count. As in dual and pic at the same time wouldn't count. She tried to say I needed 250 Hours after all my training was done. Can anyone substantiate this?
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that's incorrect, for the purpose of receiving a certificate, the dual received while still PIC does count towards your 250TT. Many airlines however that require PIC totals in order to get an interview, won't count any Dual received towards that PIC total amount.
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