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Originally Posted by Led Zep
(Post 387034)
I'm not sure why you picked a doctor as your example. Here is some realistic math for you, and I say realistic because I personally know the person in the example I'm about to give.
A friend of mine spent 8 years in school, 4 undergrad and 4 in medical school, and 6 years of residency to become a neurosurgeon. Total time: 14 years. Yes, pay through residency wasn't great, but then again residency is still required to become a physician. He was offered a job and accepted it with a practice already established. Starting salary? Just over one million dollars a year. Assuming his college only cost him $250K, and I suspect it was a lot lower then, his first year pay will more than pay for all of that college. Now let's look at aviation. The whole point isn't to compare student debt in aviation to student debt in other professions. The whole point is to look at the cost of becoming a pilot versus your prospects of landing a decent job and the realistic salaries one can expect. And the fact of the matter is that you are guaranteed to spend a lot of money chasing a profession that will not pay you very much in return. What cracks me up on these threads is how everyone says you must "follow your dreams" because this "beats working in an office". But you look at another thread and everyone who "loves living the dream" is comparing notes on how to make tomato soup out of catsup packets because they can't afford to eat on a layover. A person takes their very first flight lesson today. 14 years from now what kind of realistic pay and QOL can they expect? Where in this profession do you see yourself 14 years from the date of your first flight lesson? It's not that I am intentionally being negative, it's that there isn't much positive left in this industry to make the risk of entering it worth the time and money. The "dream" is only one aspect of this career, but to be fair you must lay all the cards on the table - the good, the bad, and the ugly. the reason i chose doctor is because that is the path i was going to follow. ok, i am not going to call you a liar but i know and have ties with SEVERAL neurosurgeon who weren't offered as their first job out of residency over 1 million a year, and MOST of them are clearing around 500k a year on average. none are even close to a million and some have been in the field for 20 years. your friend is either shoveling it or your exagerating. neurosurgeons also have the worst qol, are most likely to be sued, and have probably the highest divorce rate for any other md. you all should look at this message board. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/index.php they complain about their pay, qol, and everything else pilots complain about. like i said till YOU have actually been on that side, you don't know what you are talking about. |
Originally Posted by Airsupport
(Post 387150)
the reason i chose doctor is because that is the path i was going to follow.
ok, i am not going to call you a liar but i know and have ties with SEVERAL neurosurgeon who weren't offered as their first job out of residency over 1 million a year, and MOST of them are clearing around 500k a year on average. none are even close to a million and some have been in the field for 20 years. your friend is either shoveling it or your exagerating. neurosurgeons also have the worst qol, are most likely to be sued, and have probably the highest divorce rate for any other md. you all should look at this message board. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/index.php they complain about their pay, qol, and everything else pilots complain about. like i said till YOU have actually been on that side, you don't know what you are talking about. |
Originally Posted by Lighteningspeed
(Post 387168)
I agree with some of your points but clearing $500,000 a year sounds pretty good. That's a good living wage even if it is not $1 million a year. I am not advocating anyone to go to medical schools unless that's what they want to do.
lots of people on here say "there is a lot of glamour in being a pilot but i want you to know the other side too". well i am here to tell you "there is a lot of glamour in being a doctor but i want you to know the other side too". its not all money and fun and prestige. it is hard work. LOTS of time away from the family, and lots of stress. lucky for me if there was a mistake in the o.r. or if someone didn't make it i wasn't the one who had to go break the news to the family. i have however been into the court several times to testify for malpractice suits. most of which were frivolous lawsuits that took time and money to defend against. |
Originally Posted by soldierboy
(Post 386877)
So, as the industry is surrounded bybad news all around from these threads on APC, is it worth getting flight training and actually going for my dream or find another government job after I retire and make more money and not have to worry about all the stuff pilots are saying through these posts altogether??
Thank you for your advise. I don't want to engulf myself in a dream that won't come true or unattainablea and be able to progress in the occupation. |
Soldierboy, to answer part of your question... Assuming you have the money, desire, physical health, etc. you'll be able to become an airline pilot. How far you get in the profession is another matter. This profession has always had its ups and downs. I'd imagine you'd be looking at a regional job in your early forties. Three - five years later you could be in the left seat of an RJ making $70K or more with your retirement on top. Would that satisfy your dream or do you need to fly a Boeing or Airbus to claim success?
I spent 4 years in the Army, then 5 in college, and didn't get to commercial flying until nearly 30. Ten years later now...would I do it over again- Yes. Maybe differently, maybe in something other than 121 passenger ops. Sure beats sitting behind a desk. |
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Originally Posted by SkyHigh
(Post 386967)
No one can really say what will happen. However this down turn is unlike any other in aviation history. Our entire profession and aviation way of life is in danger. The odds are that aviation will be a miserable place to be over the next ten years or so.
If you can not be satisfied with picking a new dream and can survive the loss if your career does not get off the ground then go for it. However if you have a family in tow (or want one) or nothing else to rely on then I would pass. SkyHigh First of all, you don't deserve to say "Our entire profession" because the last time I checked, this isn't your profession. You gave up, remember? soldierboy, Whatever you do, don't listen to this loser, SkyHigh. He is a bastion of negativity and cannot be objective in giving you career change advice. Just read his past posts and responses to his posts. Don't be discouraged by anyone for that matter. Even the people telling you to go the part 61 route at a slow pace are wrong. Whether fast or slow, go at the pace you want. Look, the industry does suck right now but don't be discouraged. The best time to start your training is when the chips are down....kind of like the stock market. The job market in flying is cyclical so it will bounce back. You may have to run through a couple of cycles of ups and downs before you land a good job but hang in there. Success in aviation is like any other field......it is when preparation meets opportunity. If you persevere and stick it out, it will happen. No matter how negative a picture these other posts paint, you won't really know until you find out for yourself. If you love to fly and love the idea enough to do it for a living, don't let anything get in your way. Many times, one must throw practicality and caution to the wind and make a decision to just take the first step. |
Stop blowing smoke..
Originally Posted by Airsupport
(Post 386994)
see. these kind of comments show how little people know about student debt for people in other professions. med school will cost you around 250k. your first year out of med school you will make about 15 dollars an hour, or around 30k a year. your stubent loan payment which is now due will be near 2000 bucks a month. after going through residency for 4 years making just over 30k for your entire stent you finally get to venture out. so lets do the math shall we. 4 years of college plus 4 years of med school plus 4 years of residency plus 2 years of specialization. hmm in 14 years you will start to finally see the rewards of the career you have chosen.
not saying its not worth it, but people on this side of the fence have no idea how it works so they say stuff like this. the rate of divorce amongst doctors during residency is about 60 percent at the school i was going to attend. they pretty much told us if we weren't married coming in to not do it till we are done. the hardships of being away from home, making little to no money, and student loan payments that are more than you bring in are just to much for some families. oh and did i mention that pilots like to whine and complain. i think it is in our blood. |
Go for the dream! If you fail, atleast you experienced it based on your own decision. That Gov't job will still be there! Flying job?
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Originally Posted by TonyMontana
(Post 387457)
I assume you are speaking from some experience and not speculating-but im here to tell you that your figures are WAY off. Care to ask me how I know?
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