Any Advice for the CFI's out there clearing 16k?
 

Sitting on APC and realizing the "competitive" 600/50 I have is no longer even close to competitive. Any career advice would be awesome, and go a long for those friends of ours out there including myself, who all had their interviews and classes classes "postponed indefinetly." Thanks, and in the words of goose "Maybe I should be a truck drive?"

UH , use your CFI and instruct. Do you really think 600/50 entitles you to fly a big shiny jet anyways?

Yep, instruct and save up some money so you can afford to be a first-year FO when hiring starts back up again...

Keep instructing and build your flight time. There is about to be yet another shake up in the industry with high oil/fuel prices and with mergers in the works. You will be better off in the short term sticking it out as a CFI and then maybe trying to get on with a good regional after this downturn. Get on at the front end of the hiring wave. We are still hiring here at Comair, but we are one of the few airlines still hiring and the music could stop anytime -- and you don't want to be left without a chair when it does.

For the sake of your mental and financial health, keep instructing. You may hate it, but you will hate it less than being at the bottom of the seniority list at a regional wondering if you are going to have a job tomorrow.

I believe this downturn will be short lived and hopefully will be back on track next summer. Good luck in whatever you do. Ultimately, you have to do what you think is best for you. Everyone here is going to give you their opinion on what they think you should do, but the buck stops with you! No one really knows what is going to happen (myself included) in this industry. It is all speculation. Don't make any decisions based on rumor and speculation. And if someone says "I heard from so and so....." run the other way as fast as you can.

Cut the guy a break. We all had shiny jet syndrome when we were instructing. That's the reason most people get into aviation. If you say you weren't dreaming of flying a jet while you were a CFI (assuming you did instruct), you'd be kidding yourself. I very seriously doubt that your ultimate goal was to fly a B1900 or Dash-8.

I'd seriously consider another line of flying--fractionals or corporate. There are no perfect flying jobs, but the airline business will be especially "unsettled" until the price customers are willing to pay realigns with the cost of delivering the product. That will be years from now, if ever. So get yourself a good flying job you can make a career of, enjoy your life and save your money! If you never get hired by a major airline don't think you've missed anything.

Good luck.

Very helpful post... thanks for that

Fly as much as you can......in as many different types as you can, make as many contacts as possible & enjoy it. You'll be out of intstructing soon enough.

haha...here we go again, whats wrong flying a B1900 or Dash-8? and I doubt flying CRJ is your carerr goal, its a stepping stone to most, its turbine time isn't it? ooh and last time I checked...Pilots get pay by hours? Just want to get it out, I hate when people start comparing Jet/Prop. Its a plane that carry pax to their destination!! Get over it!

So is your ultimate goal flying a CRJ? I instructed for over 2 years. I wanted to spend as little time as required at the regionals to get the turbine PIC the majors were asking for. My ultimate goal is to fly big jet airplanes, not small ones.

I'm not going to start an argument, but I never said my ultimate goal was to fly a CRJ. I ultimately would like a mainline job somewhere along the line. Not too sure how you guys deduced from my statement that my goal was a CRJ. I was merely standing up for an aspiring airline pilot that was being hounded by someone with egomania. Relax! Besides, I think my username says it all.

I instructed for 3 years to get the time needed to move on, back in the day. At 500 hours, I was barely getting comfortable as a CFI, let alone thinking of moving on. But - I realize times change, and this industry is all about timing (and who you know). So, just hang in there, realize the industry is in shambles for now, and most likely will be for a long while. Remember that many of those ahead of you had to instruct for a long time to get a shot at a turboprop or cargo!

PS - I know folks kid about the 'truck driving school' number, but those guys are getting hammered by fuel as much airlines. If one is truly looking for a backup career, making sure it's not in the transportation sector would be a smart move.

why do these threads always turn into these absurd debates. people can think for themselves when it comes to the point where they have enough time to fly for a regional. apparently thats a new concept to many people on these forums.

Actually I want to fly an ultralight with a handhold underneath for one passenger and roller skates so they can travel down the runway. Air Wildflyin! Delivering People to their Destinations 400 Feet at a Time!

Its going to be hard to save off of 16K a year.

Why would anyone flight instruct for $16K/year?

In today's market that's easily a $40K/yr job.

Random question but where do you get 40k+ as an instructor?

Freelance instructors easily make that and more...I have several former students who never left the instructor ranks because they didn't want to take a 70% pay cut to regional FO.

In some markets you will need to be a self-starter and drum up your business at first.

Freelancers who specialize in something other than ASEL PPL can command higher fees. (MEI, certain TAAs, CFII/GPS, etc)

Also I have seen numerous ads for CFI's offering $40k+ salary and benefits. Schools which teach asian students will probably not be affected by oil prices, since asia is drastically short of pilots.

Someone suggested fractionals or corporate...

Fractionals are not going to happen with your times, anybody you want to work for only hires experienced corporate, regional, or military pilots.

Corporate with your experience is a long shot, and depends on you knowing someone. Try to CFI at an airfield that has some corporate operations and network...you might luck into a right-seat job, although insurance is often a problem below 1000 hours.

I made $40K instructing during 2007 at a small pt 61 school in NE Georgia.

My experience didn't seem out of the ordinary as compared to other CFIs I spoke with at conferences and on the internet.

I think the first step is to become unwilling to work for $16K...from there, it's not that hard to get into a higher paying position.

You know, this all post 2005 or so generation wants me to puke. When i started flying in 97 this was the regular path to the airlines:
1. CFI for two years or so to get to P135 mins
2. Go fly some sh!tty equipment at night, IFR, etc. etc.
3. Sign a training contract with XYZ commuter to fly J31s, B1900s, etc. for $14K/year
4. Get lucky and move to majors in 10 years from the day you started your training..

Thank god that the industry is going back to 'normal'..

You might consider looking for a job instructing at one of those schools in CA or AZ that train foreign pilots. One in Bakersfield has been advertising a salary in the high 40's, weekends off, and full benefits. This would be a great place to weather the current hiring freeze.

As you gain experience, you might want to consider going to a fractional instead of an airline. After talking to a couple of fractional pilots lately, I get the impression their business hasn't slowed a whole lot (yet). You may very well have the hours to apply at a fractional by the time airlines start hiring again.

Also, somebody earlier mentioned ultralights. There are a couple of schools in CA that make great money providing instruction with light sport aircraft. With fuel and other costs rising rapidly, I'll bet this will be one of the fastest growing segments of GA in the years ahead. It might be a good place to get in on the ground floor.

There's still plenty of opportunity out there. It might not be in the right seat of a jet, but chances are you'll be getting paid better and having more fun!

Wait tables.

Back in 2002 you were HAPPY to have a CFI job that you flew more than 10 hours a month. I cfi'd for three years and then flew freight for two, then got to slide into a semi clean CRJ once I had 3000tt. You can now do it too....you can be just like me.

Thats what I'm saying, everyone bashes me for what I said in my original post , and yes I dreamed of jets when I was instructing , but , reality was, I was aware I would need a couple thousand hrs. to even get considered at a regional. you had to pay your dues and work your way up.

EXACTLY ...

Hey I help out whenever I can.

If you're going to instruct then I would definately go somewhere where you can make money...florida and az come to mind... I liked instructing it just didn't have enough growth potential for me. I got hired just before the boom stopped so in that way I got lucky... but if I had to go back to instructing it wouldn't be the end of my world, but I certainly wouldn't work for 16k a year.

OK , I'll tell you hwat to do. First , you have all your ratings and CFI so your off to a good start . Next go find an FBO that has a 135 cert. and get a job instructing there. Now you might have to work lineservice also to supplement your paycheck, but if you want it bad enough buck up and do it. If possible find an FBO with turbine equipment, I live in wisconsin and can think of three right off the top of my head. get to 135 mins and start flying pax and frieght charter for them eventually working up to the turbine stuff. Fly the turbine equip. till you have 5000 hrs (seems to be a magic number) . Then go get a part 91 job and sit back and watch the money roll in.
This is what I did, It took me about 10 years, and yes it sucked at times. But I fly citations for six figures a year now and it was well worth it. Any questions PM me I'll be happy to answer.

http://www.ifta.aero/

Thats why we aren't respected as professionals now... You think the above progression is "normal?" I thought pilots wanted to bring pay and benefits up across the board, not say "thank God those young guys are gonna have to suffer like I did."

I'd rather instruct my whole career than sit on the right of someone like you... :rolleyes:

Then Keep flying your Cirrus around and leave the airline flying to us! There are many more of us old dogs out there that grinded out thousands of hours to be competitive for a regional job than the 500 hour newby's out there!

As a side note, are there any regionals out there that will still give you an interview with 600/50?

I'm not SAYING you guys didn't pay your dues. What I'm saying is you don't have to be such pricks to those who happened to have better luck- why not support them? It's called progress! If it was your a$$ getting called into the interview with 500 hours, you sure as hell wouldn't be turning it down.

And I will keep flying my Cirrus, until I get 1200 total time and then I'm going to find a 135 job, because I want to learn as much as I can from this aviation thing. I want to have flown a large variety of planes, etc, but that's a personal choice.


I understand that you guys had to work your a$$es off to get a regional job, but that doesn't mean it was right then or now. But to b--ch and moan about guys getting in with 500, 600, 700 hours, and then say you're happy that things are going back to the "Good old days" when you worked for 10 years to get to a $14,000 a year job is a bit hypocritical from the same people who talk about "raising the bar" and "pilots deserve more pay."

And furthermore, if you "grinded" to get all those "thousands" of hours, why are you still in an Emb-120?

Go fly part 135 in Alaska. You'll make more money and get some experience that can't be had anywhere else.

Why are we still hammering guys that got hired with lower times? We are share the dream to be a pilot, some are luckier than other. Why so much "I flew 3k hours before I got picked up to fly, and his kid with 500 hours got picked up the very same job" Seriously, this is got to stop. How you think lower time guy feel if he's flying with a captain that think like you do? Come on, and please prove how unsafe is it that guys got hired with lower time? Because you have to work little harder to explain to the guy? Please just help each other out for crying out loud! It's not the guys fault he/she got hired with 500 hours!

Oh, and this is a very small industry!

Who the hell do you think you are, judging him like that? Quit playing judge and jury and get your head out of the clouds :rolleyes:

Thank you! Couldn't have said it better... I wish this forum had a respected user list...

Pretty simple. I was hired.......they were filling a class for the EMB.....thats where I went. All company need! I would not trade my time in the 120 for anything and I have enjoyed every min of it!

Join the military. It'll be one of the best moves for your personal and professional development. You'll hear a lot of talk about which service is the best, but to be honest they are all good.

I'm not saying the EMB-120 is a bad airplane, but with your attitude I thought you'd be flying... oh, say the space shuttle? Respect is a give and take type of deal, and if you want respect then you probably shouldn't be so hypocritical. I'm sure you're an awesome pilot and hopefully you're not as much of a jerk as you come off as, but perhaps you should read the rest of my above post. ;)

I hate to sound of doom and gloom, but I think the supply side of the hiring equation is going to increase dramatically in the next six months. Specifically, in my opinion, we haven't seen the last of the airline bankruptcies nor have we seen the peak of pilot furloughes which in my opinion may commence after Labor Day.

Unfortunately, for the reasons listed above pilot-demand (employment opportunities) may shrink dramatically and jobs will become a premium and quite possibly min. quals. for hiring may become more stringent.

I hope I am wrong, but I think we are just seeing the beginning of a turbulent time in the airline industry.

Best of Luck to the original author of this thread, it will be a tough road.

FF