300tt, 81PIC, 23ME=JOB
 

Was looking over a web site and this one guy got the job with only 300tt. Just wondering how often this occurs or did the guy just have really good connections? I know its Mesa, but still it is an airline job.

http://www.aviationinterviews.com/pilotsample/mesa.html

Edik

That has to be a joke. Read the rest of his report, age 41, called 1 week after resume sent in, 2 year degree, current job part 121, NO letters of recommendation? I know it's Mesa, but come on there's no way they hired this guy. If they did they must have been DESPERATE at the time.

Yea i did read it, and that is why i was so shocked. It seemed like the guy had nothing going for him.

edik

Nothing at all...kind of looks like aviationinterviews.com was using it to advertise, who knows though. Honestly though, I cannot imagine ANY airline hiring a pilot with times and a background like that. I think teaching in 172's would be more for this guy until he gets around 1000 pic.

I think he is MAPD from their Suan Juan College Program.

At least he went to the ERJ so I don't have to babysit him...woohoo! :eek:

Must have gone thru one of mesa's programs at some point

It does look funny next to the military guy with 4500tt and 3900 pic with a 4 year degree.

They only hire 300 hour pilots who did their pay-for-training program. For anyone off the street it's 1000/100.

Why would you have 350TT and only 81PIC. How is that possible. Did this guy spend 100hrs on his private, flying dual. Just don't get it.

When I worked at MAPD in FMN there were plenty of guys who were hired <250TT and 20 ME. It's nothing new there, sorry...it's been that way since 1989 (however they went to the beech back then, not the RJ).

FYI, these guys still go through Mesa's training program (indoc, systems, sim) and don't pay a dime for it. They do pay for their flight training just like everyone else sans military did it. Hell, their A36 goes for what I paid for a 172 when I did my ratings, and their CFI costs are HALF what I paid. Calling this PFT is a bit of a strech IMO...

Most people have stopped logging training after their private as both PIC and dual recieved. If you log your flight training as both dual recieved and PIC, most airlines will just subtract your dual recieved from your PIC to come up with what they consider your "true PIC". Assuming these times are legit, all the dual recieved for his/her inst/comm/me is logged as JUST dual recieved, not both. It's a better system because most airlines care about who is calling the shots and has "final authority" not who had their feet and hands on the controls.

Which airlines subtract dual rec from PIC? I don't recall anyone doing that to my times. I logged all dual received as PIC if I was rated in the a/c. Just curious.

Yeah, as far as those things go it is a pretty good deal.

OK, you got me rick:o I have to admit that my information is second hand and I don't know any specific names, but it makes sense. I think of it this way: if I have a beginning instrument student who can barely keep the airplane upright let alone operate in the IFR environment, should that student really be logging PIC even if they are rated in the aircraft? They more than likely aren't sole manipulator and they definitely aren't the final authority. I guess I don't see when that student was acting as PIC...

Technically he is allowed to and that is what everyone does. Since that's the industry standard, don't penalize yourself or your student. You'll be competing for a job which people who DID log every allowable minute.

You'll also be competing with people who logged time in every twin that they came close enough to to read the tail number. Don't shortchange yourself.

"Fly what you can, Log what you need"

Embry-Riddle's CAPT program places 225TT (or less...some with 185TT) with less than 80ME are being placed into Pinnacle. They do interview one day and get a job same day. A whole bunch of CAPT graduates in the past couple months have gotten picked up with those credentials. ASA did the same thing in 2005, but they still stick to the two day interview process with a longer response time. ASA obviously has more bodies than water in the pool right now, but Pinnacle is still picking them up like hot cakes.

Didn't CAPT get shut down?

The skinny is that the university will continue to support the program until the last class completes their training. The last class started a week before the announcement early this month. I hear one of the guys in that class bailed (good for him/her). So you got about 10-12 classes of 6 or less per class still in the machine.

yeah, or at least it's getting shut down. And a buddy of mine just got onto Pinnacle with just over 400TT. He said that most the guys at the interview were under 1000. I think that this is some of these regionals plan. Hire when they have really low time, that way they don't have enough hours to go anywhere else and we can pay and treat them like crap.

Mesa's online application requires you to only list PIC that was not also dual received.
Hog

Pic Time
 

Alright,
This is a little off the subjec of the thread but the logging as refered to earlier would be legal, even if it wasn't moral. However Hog is right as well, anybody that puts their application in to an airline through AirlineApps.com is splitting their times up as dual and pic and instructor seperately. As for how many airlines that add or don't add the times together, that I don't know.

XtremeF150

I know logging it as both PIC and dual recieved is LEGAL, that wasn't what I was saying. Way back when the way it was explained to me was that you didn't do yourself any favors logging both PIC and dual recieved for training flights because some places split it up anyway (apparently Mesa? and I can't believe I forgot about airlineapps. It was a pain getting my times to add up with some flights logged as both PIC and dual). And as I started instructing I followed that pattern and have been doing it that way for 2+ years now. Have I done my students a diservice? I don't think so.

Mesa doesn't care. I vaguely remember that airline apps does ask for that breakdown, but no airline has published PIC mins that exclude dual-received PIC

Bottom Line: The FAA specifically allows you to use dual-received PIC towards the ATP experience requirements, so why the h*ll not??? Haven't you paid enough for your flight training already???

BTW I'm the LAST person who would ever advocate a shortcut of any kind, but this is just plain silliness.

As far as I can recall,there are few airlines that have specific PIC requirements to get an interview. Yes, they want a break down of PIC time when you fill out the paperwork, but at that point is doesn't matter anyway. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against someone who logs their dual-recieved as PIC. Its just that all of my dual-recieved is seperate from PIC (except a few places where an instructor filled it out as both when I went to an FBO for a checkout) and I don't feel like I was cheated out of anything. Most of the instructors I know keep it seperate. If a student asked me to log it as both I would have no problem doing it.

I guess the way I see it, just because the FAA says I can, doesn't mean I should. The FAA also specifically says I can not have flown in the clouds for 5 months and 29 days and then go up in hard IFR with an airplane full of my friends and family. Doesn't make it a good idea.

Anytime the applicant has less then 1000 hours it's guranteed that they are from a fast-track academy. As far as Mesa PD, I don't get it. Pay 45K for training plus housing and comm. college costs just to have a chance to be hired at an airline where you can get hired easily if you just had your 1500 hours, you don't even need college. I would understand if Skywest had a program like this, but MESA? Shows that they are really after the money.

Well, it is in fact true. I am that person. I went through the Mesa Pilot Development program. Although very inexperienced, I have learned a valuable lesson already- be wary of whiny snively pilots with terrible attitudes, of which there seem to be many on this forum. Life is what you make of it, and it seems many people have let their attitudes make their lives miserable, despite flying airplanes for a living. And in addition, I have plenty going for me. While some of the whiners here whine, I will be working hard to learn, maintain a positive attitude while of course avoiding losers whose only joy seems to be attempting to bring others down.

Have a wonderful day, everyone. I know I will!

Rick:
With regards to the PIC, the way the application is set up, the post-rating dual given can't be entered as PIC time. The way I actually log it, I have about 200 PIC. But the times won't jive if you try and enter it that way on their app.

Sorry for so many replies to this thread, but the last sentence above really cracks me up. Just who the hell ISN'T after the money? This is one of the things that amazes me about complainers. And what precisely is wrong with going after the money? And who's to say how any individual should pursue their career. Frankly, being a CFI doesn't make sense to me, as I am not a teacher by nature. However, I certainly don't think it is my place to judge others who choose that route.

I wish everyone here the best in their career. The best thing many here could do is change their attitude. But frankly, the whiny and snively vibe here just isn't for me.

Carry on, as you were, and all that other stuff.

Not taking sides, but well spoken my friend. All the best.:)

"Although very inexperienced, I have learned a valuable lesson already- be wary of whiny snively pilots with terrible attitudes, of which there seem to be many on this forum"

So does the fact that I don't believe 300 hour pilots belong in an RJ make me a whiny snively pilot? Or can I have an honest opinion that differs from yours and not be whiny?

Of course it doesn't make you a whiny and snively pilot. What makes one a whiny and snively pilot is one who whines and snivels. I'm sure you can make a great case as to why I shouldn't be on a CRJ or ERJ. The fact remains the opportunity is there, and I will pursue the best opportunities I can with a smile on my face. It's a given that corporations want to make money. It is a corporation's job to get their employees to do the most amount of work possible for the least amount of money possible.

What amuses me here (and in every other line of work I've been in) is how a certain amount of people think that they should be insulated from the forces of economics, supply and demand. That is how wages are determined. Hopefully, when you pay money for a product or service, you are looking to get maximum value for your money. Why should Jonathan Ornstein or any other CEO be any different?

The economy is globalizing, and businesses of all types are going to have to compete on a global level. One can either be flexible, accept change and adapt, and one can whine.

What do YOU choose to do?

True, but when does the risk outweight the benefits. Having a 300 hour pilot ,that would probably get behind a Baron, flying an RJ is downright dangerous. I pitty the poor regional CA's that have to deal with this on an everyday basis. It must take them back the their CFI days when new students were seemingly trying to kill them on a daily basis.

If it's so dangerous, why hasn't the FAA shut Mesa down? If I were behind the Baron, how is it I passed my multi-commercial checkride? How is it that 1900 FOs are upgrading to CRJ captains? Is that dangerous as well? As tightly regulated as aviation is, wouldn't such blatantly dangerous operations be stopped by the FAA? Is having a captain with 100 hours on type dangerous, especially when he has a 300-hour pilot sitting right seat? I'm sure we could come up with some really sensational and scary answers to these questions. I'm also certain that a few of the 1,200 hour CFIs in my ERJ class are now wishing they took the CRJ systems class and the sim time, and that maybe, just maybe, it's debatable that the MAPD pilot development program actually prepares people to fly the CRJ as much (in a different way, of course) as sitting right seat watching someone else fly while telling them how to do so.

All that's going on here is that Mesa has a business model that works for them. Obviously, it doesn't fit the agenda of many people- that's fine, we all have differences of opinion, and that's what makes the world go 'round. While we can and should all voice opinions, demonizing, telling others how they should pursue their career and lousy attitudes get one nowhere. I certainly understand the need to vent and this is a great forum to do so. But, in my opinion, being happy, grateful and having a realistic perspective on what drives business and creates opportunities makes for a much happier life.

Unfortunately, that is the REAL problem with some "academy grads", they are not natural leaders or teachers and have NO desire to learn to be. You DO NOT belong in the left seat of an airliner...that is a position which BY DEFINITION in the FAR's requires you to be a leader and a teacher.

There are plenty of GREAT single-pilot aviation jobs available which pay more than adequately compared to regional pay. I suggest that you get your 1000 turbine the right seat of an RJ, then go get one of those other jobs. If you take a CA upgrade at an airline with your attitude, you are depriving your crew and passengers of a key component of the safety system to which they are entitled. The crew will KNOW it, and your daily work experience will be tainted by their resentment.

AMW 1900 guys have an ATROCIOUS failure rate when upgrading to jet CA. I personally don't understand why, but it is the fact and you are not representing it correctly. :mad:

I appreciate your response. It seems I have my work cut out for me. At this point, my mission is to learn to fly the airplane from the right seat. I will either learn to be a captain or work elsewhere.

There are ups and downs to every job. As I stated, I am not a teacher by nature. As I pursued my training, there were a certain percentage of people who clearly didn't have the commitment nor ability to pursue aviation. I would have a very difficult time with such students. That being said, I believe that a person with 2,000 hours on a specific aircraft is more prepared to teach another professional on that same aircraft than a person with 300-800 hours on a few different aircraft teaching a person who hasn't a clue and maybe isn't even sure if he wants to be a pilot in the first place. I may be proven to be wrong, but I think we are looking at two entirely different scenarios.

As I said earlier, different strokes for different folks.

Could not agree more.

As long as you are willing to learn, you'll be fine. Hopefully you'll find that you enjoy it. I was basically an anti-social all-around loser in junior high, but managed to progress over the years to holding a very senior military rank. It was tough, but worth it.

Excuse me? I have a friend who just upgraded from the Beech 1900 FO to CRJ captain. Presumably, he is not the only one who has done so. The fact that people fail speaks to the safety of such upgrades, does it not? Doesn't a failure in fact mean that that pilot was not able or safe to make the upgrade, and as a result, isn't in fact doing so?

What is it I have not represented correctly? I merely stated fact and truth.

I have to say, with regards to another reply, I would never knowingly misrepresent anything, though I may not be aware of all the facts.

I can certainly appreciate your progression. I started out in a similar fashion. In fact, I joined the military and wasn't even fit for service, and was basically booted out after three years. A better description of me is that I don't have the patience to teach people who don't have at least a basic understanding of the subject being taught. You've given me a glimmer of hope that maybe one day I just might make it there.

Thanks.