APA has.
http://www.apanegotiations.com/LinkC...bid=65&mid=448

"All flying performed by or on behalf of the Company or an Affiliate shall be performed by pilots on the American Airlines Seniority List"

I am rooting for them. They seem to be a good union who is fighting for what they deserve.




Thankfully there is an arbitrary number (50 for CAL, 70 for AMR/UAL, and 76 for DAL/NWA) to prevent companies from placing 80, 100, 120, 150 seat jets at regional airlines. Regionals are not career destinations, they are just stepping stones. That does not mean your time at a regional should be awful (eg. Mesa, GoJet, TSA), you should fight for good pay/QOL/workrules, you just don't want to have more aircraft at regionals (and thus fewer at majors). 76 seat aircraft replace mainline jets. 70 seat aircraft replace mainline jets. To some extend, many 50 seat aircraft replace mainline jets. So pilots at major airlines (like AA) are trying to lower the size/number of RJ's at regionals, thus allowing for more aircraft to be flown at the mainline level.

I wonder what fuel prices embraer used when they came up with this: http://www.embraercommercialjets.com...tela=economics

I think it's a bit flawed. Im flying mostly E135's out of CVG, which I know will be gone by the end of the year. And at least for our company, we're supposed to be getting rid of all the 50 seaters in 5 or 6 years, as per mainline's wishes. The lower frequency of flights accompanying the use of the 70+seaters will mean less pilots will be needed, so the belt tightening will continue...

I believe SWAPA had something similar in their current (maybe now former?) contract, but have since let that go to open the door to us (or whoever).

Not yet...if you guys get any flying for them, their pilots will have to cave on scope.

Since much of the airline pilot profession, especially Legacies, is dominated by ex-military guys, some would consider it sacrilege to force a new-hire to go from F-15 to a Beech 1900.

As far as RJ's...maybe they're afraid management, in an effort to maintain CASM would make mainline guys take a payscale to fly RJ's that resembles the "industry leading" and precedent-setting 70/90-seat scale negotiated by a certain airline.

"Real" Airline pilots flying turboprops? That's just for the other guy..
 

Hey Herc and Blastoff,

That was just the argument in my Dad's copy of the APA magazine from the late '80's......... Some guy felt that it would be beneath his squadron buddies to come fly the SA-227 Metros, SF-340's, and the Casa's that the "Eagles" flew then. They also said that the "Eagles" were mostly unqualified civilians that weren't worthy of being represented by the APA. My Dad said that there used to be the same attitudes towards the prop guys from the jet guys at AA in the 60's. It really pi33ed him off the way that it happened to the Eagle guys, too.

Those attitudes from the 80's helped to seal all our fates in aviation. If Eagle had been on AA's seniority list, and Comair on Delta's, etc., our lives would all be very different now. At least that military vs. civilian v. military attitude seems to have died out.

We need to stick together, now, more than ever!

In Unity,

B727DRVR

That's what pride will do to you. I wonder how they felt watching their airline stagnate/shrink while the regionals grew exponentially. I wish we were all on one list as well. Oh well, lesson learned. Lets hope that the legacies do not cave on any more scope language.

Yes and let's also hope that we all remember to stay true to this ideal when we (hopefully) make the jump sometime in the distant future.

You got it!

Other than USAIR who's mainline scope will allow RJs with >76 seats?

I want to know what idiot thinks there is even a break even mark for an airplane. I know at ExpressJet our break even for charter is 1 seat sold!! And we are making a good profit on that!

In all reality the break even point for an airplane depends on the market it is flying in. As well as if there is another airplane of the same size that burns less gas or a larger one that burns the same. Otherwise, until you invent a more efficient 50-seater, there is no price a gas that will prevent it from making money.

Maybe the Boyd Aviation consulting business will be gone by 2013.

Airplanes don't grow on trees, Mr. Boyd,

The RJs are here to stay until the industry can sustain a changeover.

That changeover requires surplus cash.

Who has any today????

I have a feeling it has a lot to do with the wang! Small plane, small wang? :rolleyes: The major guys often look down on the guys flying smaller aircraft. Back in the day you didn't always fly the little plane to get to the big one and for some reason the pilots that got to the big one first thought less of the small plane pilot. They would not want to bruise thier egos by having to fly a little airplane.

This is only because there are more former RJ pilots at the majors now. And one of them has shown a carrier pilot how to land an airplane full of paying passengers with out dislodging thier teeth.

Amazing.........a mil guy can be taught something.

OK, how did the mil guys affect the legacys? The number of mil guys will continue to decrease as the mil gets smaller and they will be replaced by civilian.

In "The Airline Pilots" by Hopkins, the early days, 1930's or so, are discussed about the lack of mil guys. Mil avaition was small for many years. Have the majors changed because of the mil guys? WWII and Viet Nam pushed huge numbers of mil to the airlines but what is the affect?

I understand the part about some of the mil egos. A few times I was amazed the plane could fly with with the huge ego "load" of my copilot.

Should the 121 world be all civilain? Not looking for flame but trying to see where this is going.

No, I will not be upset to be FO to my much younger CA. I am lucky to find a job.

At the NWA/DAL joint merger presentation, the NWA rep stated that they are looking for 100 seat jets that are fuel efficient to replace DC9s and MD80s, but that they are not available at a reasonable price at the moment. Until then, I think the RJs will be flying but it looks like 50 seat RJs will be phased out in numbers over the next few years. 76 seat RJs will continue on until they are replaced with 100 seat jets. The 100 seat jets will be flown by mainline pilots unless mainline pilots give up on the current scope clause. NWA alone has 8 regionals flying their routes and that's way too many. Looks like the new DAL will try to consolidate and narrow down regionals flying for them.

So is there going to be jobs?

They are not here to stay. When it is cheaper to park them than it is to fly them they will go away. That day is coming soon.

You mean at the majors or at the regionals? I believe there will be jobs at the majors. Whether they will be quality jobs with decent pay, I don't know. I hope so. At regionals, I believe there will continue to be needs for experienced pilots.

Careful expressing your first hand factual experiences on this board about scope. You might get slammed and called a whiner by somebody that has absolutely NO first hand experience with it as it relates to the pax carriers.

Air Wisconsin has a special place with the BAe-146. They are allowed those airframes or can be replaced 1-for-1, up to 18 airframes IIRC.

UAL and AWAC always had a different agreement. It's a long story and hopefully can be worked out for all involved.

There is the new RFP upon which AWAC is bidding. But the long-term success of that agreement is dependent upon the long-term success of UAL.

Good to know.

AWAC no longer flies for UAL and that 1 for 1 is no longer valid.

You are correct that AWAC no longer flies flights for United. You may be right that the 1-for-1 is no longer valid. I have heard it both ways.

Believe me, I am not a champion of larger and larger RJs going to contract carriers like AWAC. I'd much rather see them at mainline.

All I know is that AWAC is bidding on the RFP United has put out. The specifics are ultimately unknown.

Nothing is to be believed anyway until I am sitting in the airplane signing the release. Besides, it's only as good as the condition of United and that's a big question mark.