Pinnacle Copy of Arbitration
 

Hey I was wondering if anyone has a copy of the arbitration ruling in favor of the pilot group? I would really appreciate a copy of it.

Which one are you talking about? The scope grievance or vacation slides? We won BOTH!

I would assume you're talking about the vacation slides?

Being the he is a Saab FO I would assume that it is the scope grievance against Colgan he is interested in. But then again assumptions are the mother of all.... well you know the rest.

I would be interested to se an article on this if anybody has.

Yes I do work for Colgan and yes I'm interested in the arbitration not the vacation. Reason, we just got an e-mail from Mngt that the arbitrator had no ruling on Pinnacle, Inc. Just would like to get an actual copy of the arbitration so I can read it. Also we are all interested as we do want an union this August, at least the atmosphere here in IAH. I didn't get to vote last years as I was a new hire and I'm trying to take as much part into this as I can since I think it will benefit all of us to have a stronger pilot group, specially if we get merged, and no worries I'm happy in Saab land along with most. If you can PM the file or PM me and I'll give you an e-mail.

thanks

i will see if i can get it for you. the company is saying that there was no rulling on pinnacle inc but on pinnacle corp. they are trying to get the alter ego thing going but the arbitrator didn't buy it.

"Award of the the Pinnacle Airlines – ALPA System Board of Adjustment
MEC Group Grievance No. 07-14

1.) The acquisition of Colgan Air by PNCL [Pinnacle Holdings] was a “transaction which will of may result in the acquisition of another airlines by the Company or the consolidation of the Company with another airline”, within the meaning of that quoted phrase from Section 1.F.2 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

2.) The Company did violate Section 1.F.2 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement when it declined ALPA’s April 2, 2007 request to meet promptly to negotiate an appropriate “fence agreement”.

3.) As a remedy for the proven violation, the Company is directed to comply with the mandates of CBA [Collective Bargaining Agreement] Section 1.F.2.

4.) The SBA [System Board of Adjustment] retains jurisdiction for the sole purpose of resolving any disputes which may arise between the Parties regarding the application or interpretation of that remedy.

- Dana Edwin Eischen, Impartial Arbitrator and Chairman of the System Board of Adjustment"

Its a shame what those Pinnacle guys are trying to do to you Colgan guys. Best of luck to all the pilots there, I know alot of good people there and I wish them the best.

I know it's such a shame that those Colgan guys are flying 70-seaters in Newark for 80% of what we get paid to fly 50-seaters

I'm at Colgan, and by Pinnacle guys, I'm assuming you mean the, and I'll use this term loosely," management" ones screwing the pooch.

They did, however, the pilots could've voted in ALPA or some union for that matter. So you're not completely clean. If you did vote for ALPA, I'll let it slide.

As a 9E guy I can only "suggest" that the 9L guys/gals vote in ALPA next go around. Look at the longer term picture. That 2% of your income will help with seniority integration, pay raises, and work rules, especially with the Pinnacle mgmt team that we both must deal with.

You have GOT to be kidding me.....when did you get your pilot's license 2008???

on the other hand I hope im missing some form of sarcasm here.....

I'm not sure how a legitimate question about the arbitration has turned into a bashing of Colgan pilots.

Nobody here is thrilled with the Q pay scales either. Especially not the FOs, which is why the vast overwhelming majority of the Q FOs, if not ALL of them, are new-hires. If there are any FO transitions to the Q, it would only be because they live in the EWR area and want to be home, and you can't blame them for that. But I don't know of any Saab or Beech FOs that went to the Q.

I can't speak fo the captains that transitioned to the Q, but when someone walks up to you and asks you if you want a raise, would you turn it down?

I dont see one bit of Colgan bashing. I see someone who said Pinnacle pilots were screwing Colgan pilots....

I'm an EX-Colgan, currently a 737 FO for CAL.

Seeing as though you're an XJT FO, means to me you didn't vote either. You're one of these kids who goes to an RJ-regional, falls into a union job, and then thinks he has the right to lecture non-union pilots.

So stop- you won't let anyone slide. Your opinion means nothing. What you should be doing is educating those pilots on the benefits of ALPA, not saying "Colgan sucks, Pay is bad, Colgan sucks".

I've been around awhile, ExpressJets pre-2000 rates were pitiful, too.

coming from the guy who said he was a CAL 757 pilot before he even interviewed i find anything you say suspect. hows that 75 working out for ya?

Without going into he-said she-said I will say that PNCL (9E) pilots have no problems with colgan pilots. Our issue is mgmt buying colgan out of left field and setting up the perfect storm for a pilot group battle over more flying. They call this whipsaw. Bringing ALPA on property is a cheap insurance plan for those at Colgan. Say what you want- I don't hide who I am, where I was before PNCL, or anything else. Let's not bash brothers and sisters, just find a solution behind parents (mgmt) that treat us wrong.

your words hold no weight to me. if you are a CAL pilot you would be entirely against Colgan replacing XJT at EWR. That flying is CAL's and should only go back to CAL. You forget XJT was part of CAL so it is completely different with the flying going to them.

As for working at Colgan, I have no sympathy for people that go there. I could've gotten a job there long before XJT, but I only wanted to go to respectable operation.

As a supposed CAL pilot you don't come close to sounding like one.

Sir- what are you talking about?

I interviewed and was told to expect the 757. When I got my letter, it turned out to be the 737. I didn't have a problem with that. Show me where I had posted that.

Typical for you, innacurate statements.

The only operation that should have any flying is mainline. XJT, Colgan, SkyWest should all go under. But I don't want people to lose their jobs.

My criticism of XJT is based soley on their problems with Colgan guys. What were those guys supposed to do? Lose their jobs? They are working on the union drive. Did ExpressJet's ALPA drive pass the first time? Do you know a lot of what happened in the history of your airline?

The CJC pilots are good guys and none of them are trying to undercut anyone- so give them a break. Hard to have a say in rates when management forces them on you.

lol thats pretty gay.

and then how would you have gotten the time for your prestigious flying job at CAL? How would CAL get all the passengers that want to fly from Abilene or Roswell or any small town to San Diego?

No matter what one thinks about RJ's "stealing" mainline flying how about this perspective. When Northwest gave Pinnacle 130 RJ's (which mainline pilots did not want to fly those little puddle jumpers at that time) did NW lose 130 of their aircraft? I think not. Did the RJ help open up new routes, establish marketing/customer support in new markets that it would be foolish to put a 320 on to start with? yes. Then when 50 people consistently book flights in the new market, they put a DC-9 on it. Same with the touristy in-season hot spots. Thus it doesnt tie up the mainline aircraft and they can continue their frequency between already established city pairs.

Colgan does nothing BUT undercut! Having the rates thrown on you? its called not flying the damn airplane.

this guy is a nutter. this guy posted in threads where you said "well colgan served me just fine. i am a 757 fo at CAL now" and then you posted about having a cal interview a couple weeks later. you can support your alma mater all you want but dont pull stuff out your rear. you are completely discredited in my book.

Hey, do you not see your airline failing right before your eyes.:eek: You XJet guys that bash on here are so caught up in everyone else you do not even see what is going on in your own backyard.

It is people like you that give your airline a bad name, sad because there are a lot of great people who work for XJet.

I too would love to see EVERY mainline doing ALL of its flying, but alas, pilots much senior and "wiser" than I chose to allow mainlines to farm of some of the flying.

And the vast majority of the regionals who took up the slack, chose to abandon those dirty, smelly, loud, un-sexy turbo props in favor of jets. They also were able to encroach on some of the mainline runs with the little jets.

And many pilots who have come to 121 in the last few years chose to fly for regionals who operated 50 pax jets. A few even chose to work for a regional who chose to fly a jet from IAH to CLL (some 70 nm).

But a few regionals chose NOT to buy jets. They chose to stick to jumpimg puddles.

And some pilots, believing there will always be a market for those dirty, smelly, loud, un-sexy, but more profitable (or less UNprofitable if you prefer) turbo props chose to work for the turbo prop operators. They didn't do it to thumb their noses at anyone else or to undercut the industry at a "bottom feeder." Those pilots chose to work for a company that appeared to have a better business model: little turbo props on short hops.

I am one of "those" pilots.

So bash on! Tell me how my choosing to go 135 ten years ago because I refused to take a pay cut from flight instructing to fly at a regional ruined the industry. Tell me how my 200 mile flights in a turbo prop undercut the 50 pax market. Please, tell me how "I" am the root of all evil.

haha cant handle the truth huh? you will see once you stop drinking the colgan kool aid

74 seats for the same or less pay then many 50 seat jet operators is shameful. Sorry you cant see that.

All of your worries will soon be over

saab flying is losing money and is up for rebid in the near future, beech 1900 flying is losing money and is supposedly closing in Oct.... your not one to talk. your q flying is the only good thing you guys have going for you and even then your not getting paid squat for it. Scary times ahead for all.

wow, you must sit next to warren buffett with all your knowledge. Only a handful of our saab flying is losing money (namely the eas stuff) and some of the airways routes. None of our flying is up for rebid. Our airways contract is amendable this year, but not up for rebid. Since we fly at risk for them, it's not a bidding process. I'm sure there will be some changes on that end to make things more profitable. Our beech flying makes cash hand over fist. It was kept online this summer to make more money (summer flying in Maine). IT ain't the best gig in town, but not nearly the scariest. I'm sure colganicle, xjet and all the others will do what it takes to stay in business.

http://www.aviationtoday.com/ran/cat...ial/21627.html

not warren buffet. Its public info and i know a saab ca. Colgan lost 5 million in first quarter. i hope everything you say is true but i have a feeling a lot of people at the regional feed level are going to be shocked when the time for cuts comes around. bankruptcy courts can throw contracts out the window pretty quickly. Why are the beech 19's going away? Eagle is getting rid of saabs and i would expect others to follow suit.

"To the extent that we cannot significantly reduce Colgan's losses, we will make plans to reduce or eliminate the pro-rate operations at Colgan. These actions could result in significant one-time costs associated with exiting the fleet. Such steps would involve removing leased aircraft from service and returning them to third party lessors in advance of lease expirations, removing and remarketing owned Saab aircraft, selling or disposing of Colgan's inventory of Saab parts, and potentially furloughing employees. These actions could result in future write-downs of the carrying value of our tangible assets. In addition, we will continue to evaluate Colgan's intangible assets for impairment. As of March 31, 2008, Colgan's intangible assets had a balance of approximately $16 million." Pinnacle's 10-Q May 08

sorry if i ruffled your feathers but i was just responding to a "your going to be out of a job" with factual info.

Sorry you connot see that three 50 pax jets should not replace one 737. Every flight over about 300 miles should be flown by mainline pilots.

I like how you don't include the flying you do. I got a better one for you: All flying under a mainline's name should be flown by mainline pilots.

No matter how you spin it. XJT pilots were replaced at EWR with pilots who make 80% of our wages to fly 48% more seats. That is shameful.

3 RJ flights vs. 1 737 flight....it's called frequency, something the consumer likes...

Newarkblows- I ask you again. Prove that.

I interviewed at CAL...told that if hired we would expect a 757 class. Got called a week and half later. When I got my letter it was the 737. I didn't complain.

You are completely losing it.

I like how you can make a statement like that and not back it up with facts and dates. You're a lunatic.

Fact is Colgan will vote ALPA this year and work towards making the working conditions better for themselves.

I voted YES last year and all that did should be commended- not call scabs or undercutters.

man, you roll in high circles

Actually I agreed in an earlier post that all flying should be done by mainline pilots:

My 300 mile comment was based on the fact that mainline pilot gave up some of their flying to regionals. I believe it was the mainliners' intent to let someone else take the short hops and keep the long hauls. Had they known then what has happened to date with the RJ craze, I think the scope clauses would have been written differently. (Or maybe not.... maybe they just didn't give a hoot).

The customer also likes free drinks and lobster on a $99 round trip. Sometimes providing the best OVERALL service means NOT giving the customers everything they want.

And higher frequency at some airports lead to taxis that take as long as the flights. Telling the customer he can leave every hour but he will spend a whole lot longer in the plane because of it is IMHO bad service. But hey, what do I know: in 98 COEX wouldn't even interview me because I didn't have 1500 hours, and EJT last advertised 600/100.

hey I got hired at Coex in 98...but left right after training to fly corporate/135 in my hometown for twice the pay.