Regional pilot vs. regional pilot
 

Ok time to vent. There are a vocal few on this board that think that themselves and their regional is God's gift to aviation, along the lines of the Wright Bros., DaVinci and the jet engine. Everyone who has been on this forum for more than a week knows who YOU are, so im not gonna call anyone out by name. All you hear is ..."Express Jet is beter than Skywest because I work there and I have 2000 hours and I make more money than you." Followed by "Skywest is better than Mesaba because I got hired with 1900 hours and I get more days off." Followed by Mesaba is better than Pinnacle because....and on and on and on. THS IS EVEN MORE CHILDISH THAN "MY DAD CAN BEAT UP YOUR DAD". And the most vocal antagonists probably WEREN'T EVEN AT THEIR AIRLINE WHEN THE PILOTS BEFORE THEM WERE FIGHTING FOR A GOOD CONTRACT, they just walked into it as a green new hire. You cannot tell the difference in maturity in these arguments between a 300 hour new hire and a 4000 hour Captain. If you spent half as much time finding faults within your own airline and trying to fix them instead of wasting your energy critiquing others, this industry might actually improve....walk a picket line with your regional brothers, volunteer on your union comittee, etc. But then again nothing makes your balls bigger than flying a big shiny new airplane or hiding behind a screen name bashing others, does it?

No wonder the public doesnt give a flip about us anymore...

oh yeah don't even get me started on the know-it-alls!!!

I couldnt agree more Mooney! Props to you.

Amen brother! :D

I wonder if this is a result of having 500 hour 20 year olds in the cockpit?

walking a picket line for another airline isn't going to do anything if another airline will come in and do that flying when it comes up for bid. if you want to stand together it will take major changes and I doubt most pilots have to will power to do it. you only have to look at freedom and gojets to see that pilots are gutless and weak. there is absolutley no unity in the industry anymore and there probably hasn't been any since deregulation.

when did the public ever give a flip about pilots? if you are looking to be admired get over it...

I think Mooney is ready to be a moderator....we "vent" daily about some of the same stuff....nice post.

You've got to be FKM! Get over it? Me looking to get admired? yeah right. I'm blue collar baby, I bring my lunch bucket, clock in, work, clock out and go home and drink a Schlitz.....no backpack, ipod and frosted spiked hair for me...You talk about unity, then bash the idea of helping your fellow aviators by helping them in their fight for a fair contract.....way to take a post and twist it around. I said no wonder the public doesnt give a flip about us....not, "oh god I miss the little kiddies running up to me asking for my autograph and picture!"

Sound of Crickets....Chirp...Chirp.... Chirp....Chirp.

It's too easy to get on here and attack eachother for being different...

I agree to a degree with you but i do think a lot of the "my regional is better then yours..." business comes from people getting frustrated with the constant undercutting in the industry. You could concentrate on improving your airline but as history keeps repeating itself the better-ed airlines never stay on top for long because they start getting undercut. Comair, AWAC,... are some of the recent obvious ones. A lot of people start holding grudges against these undercutting airlines and their pilots even if their pilots had nothing to do with the actual business side of the undercutting. It is almost a disbelief in the lack of understanding of fellow pilots who are willing to work for a company that is basically taking the pilot profession backwards as far as pay and benefits go. Management wins and the whipshaw continues. Those better-ed airline employees are soon downsized and looking for work at the next to be better-ed airline. There wont be any forward progress until everyone is miserable and so far there has always been someone naive enough to fly for miserable pay and working conditions.

Where are the unions in this? that can be debated but unions have been ineffective in educating younger pilots on their career options and rallying the troops towards one collective goal. Voting in a union could be a good thing for a pilot group but it doesn't guarantee anything.

ps. i think my dad could whoop your dads ass ... jk

newarkblows...You're right! That is why I completely disagree with "get your time and get out," as was the school of thought that ran rampant throughout the Pilot ranks of Trans States.

Bingo!

I was at ZV/YV when it happened there with FJ.

The whipsaw of FJ prevented ZV/YV pilots from fighting for a "raising the bar" contract.

what the hell does having a backpack, ipod or frosted spiked hair have anything to do with anything...

explain to me how walking a picket line with another airline really matters. besides being rah rah what does it really do? real unity is a joke in the airlines. it doesn't exist. all it is is a nice catch phrase. nothing else.

why should the public give a flip about us? do you give a flip about all the other jobs out there?

The unions definitely need to start showing up at the FBOs and the Flight Schools. I get a career services letter from ERAU and it prominently shows some of the scab airlines as hiring. You think a college kid is going to want to "research" how good or bad a company is.... for the most part probably no. If the unions came in and stopped the Union Busting at the ground floor (flight school/training), we might get somewhere....

Unfortunately, some of the idiots from Flightinfo have migrated over here. A year or two ago this forum was about good information. Now it's just turning into another Flightinfo (which has become totally useless) with a bunch of whining.

Its not a result of the 500 hour plus 20 year olds because I am on of those 20 year olds who keeps their mouth shut about stupid comments. Btw i love flight instructing!

Good for you....seriously!!

that's because you only have a couple hundred hours doing it....:D

what's your idea of a scab airline?

yea those darn fbo's and flight schools are turning out pilots that go directly to jetblue, virgin america and skybus. I'm sure the first new hires at freedom and gojets were from flight schools. throwing blame on new hires is like blaming regional pilots for the bad pay at the majors. (if it's a start up then blame the new hires and chances are they aren't from fbo's and flight schools)

Oh I'm not blaming them (and my idea of a scab airline comes right from the union folks of the forum). As far as stopping the busting at the ground floor, it would only make sense to me to help newbies out by coming and talking to them. I have heard nothing but people whine about how new hires don't do enough research..... well bring the research to them because MY specific alma mater does not differentiate between airlines created to whipsaw us and legit unionized ones.

can you give specifics when you say scab airline?

unionized airlines have been whipsawing each other for awhile now too. I agree some info would be good but they're the smallest cog in this problem and we don't hold our own responsible for what we've done to this industry.

Well not my words but whatever that airline is that TSA created... gojets??? For example.

I think it's important because there are too many new hires being called scabs because they join an airline which isn't unionized or had a history of prior scabs.... not very fair to them (but they should have done their research....?!? No-the research should come to them if people feel its important).

If the thread starter is so against the whining then why did he start a thread entirely devoted to whining... about whining? It seems someone starts a thread like this every few months... It's comical. If you want to flame don't be passive-aggressive about it by starting a thread like this.

I'm not impressed.

joining a non union carrier isn't being a scab. if people are saying that then they are just idiots and don't get it.

gojets to my knowledge has the teamsters but was developed in a scab like way even though they don't technically fit the scab definition.

I agree getting that out would help some. it could be real easy to make a website stating which airlines could be shady like freedom and gojets and which ones are good. the problem is that alpa for example wouldn't have the guts to do it. an overhaul would be needed.

Because he's whining about whining ?

:confused:

This is just a question because Im not really sure about this... didnt TSA have pilots on furlough when they created GoJets? If they did and hired off the street for GoJets, then it was and still is somewhat of a scab airline. Whether or not they have a union now doesnt change the fact that they MAY have hired people while TSA had pilots on the street.

But you agree that Skywest is better than Mesaba, right........?

[justkidding/extremesarcasm/dontbitemyheadoff]

It doesn't matter if you hired people while other airlines had guys on furlough. A scab is someone who crossed a picket line. Its that simple. If there is no strike, there can be no scabs. Using the word with any other definition cheapens its meaning. There is a reason old school mainline guys are so aggressive with their scab lists.

Ya I agree, the word scab has been thrown around incorrectly. I guess lack of a better word has driven people to call GoJeters scabs. They didnt cross a line, but they did go to Gojets when TSA was using Gojets as a union buster. Whatever you want to call it Gojets and Freedom is $%^& factory. Mainly GoJets.

The original freedom (Freedom A) was every bit as bad as gojet, there was no difference whatsoever in their circumstances.

The current freedom has nothing to do with that, I'd be surprised if even one of the original "A-Listers" remained on the certificate.

I agree. As the de facto national pilot union, alpa should run an educational campaign targeted at entry-level GA pilots. Kind of like what we do here on APC :rolleyes:

It would not be that hard to do, and would not be expensive...I'm sure they could get enough pilot volunteers to go spend a little time at the home drome now and then. The low-timers might actually listen to a real, live airline pilot.

wow...ignorance at it's finest. I'm not the one that started the whining on here....nobody HAD to respond. i was simply stating a fact. I didn't "flame" anything on here....some other people did, thich I think proves my initial point EXACTLY. Y'all are right, with attitudes like this our profession is in a graveyard spiral.

I'll tell ya what, when I started flying at my current airline 8 years ago my airline was one of the better ones in terms of contract/pilot experience/not known to be an undercutter/couldnt give a crap about RJ's. we flew out of MEM and only MEM. Maybe when we started flying out of MSP I should have quit and switched to Coex because I wouldnt be labeled a "scab" as some of you think the term applies, since Mesaba was based in MSP. Then when Mesaba took 15 of Pinnacles CRJ's maybe I should have quit Mesaba and gone to Skywest. Then when skywest takes over Expressjet's Laredo to IAH route I should quit and go to......well you get the picture.

Come on man.........nobody HAD to respond???? Thats like putting a stack of $100 bills on the sidewalk and then when someone swipes them saying "Nobody HAD to take those!" You put it out there to incite....own up to it

OK so when my airline signs a new contract and CRJ CA's are making $130 an hour, I shouldnt post our payrate on here if somebody asks because I might be "flaming" the other pilots. Gotcha. you all all the ones inciting. Or when I say expect 14 days off as a 8 year CA I'm flaming because somewhere there is a 9 year CA at another airline with only 13 days off:rolleyes:
Maybe if you read my original post in context......do you see crap like this on the Majors board? Fedex saying UPS sucks because Fedex has prettier airplanes? THAT is flaming, not telling people to stop *****ing.
seems like the only ones complaining about my first post are the original whiners i was talking about....

YES, ALPA National should start a nationwide education initiative at every college and 141 flight school about the harsh contemporary realities of the airline industry.

That said, ALPA is comprised of members....and members should be able and willing to take some initiative on their own and educate those following behind them with what they need to know to be informed. The easiest way to do this is with graduates of colleges with aviation programs who currently fly for regionals going back and talking to upperclassmen or representing their airline (or ALPA) at their college career fair.

Last October the industry was a college senior's oyster, EVERYBODY was hiring. I requested but was denied a trip drop to represent AWAC at Purdue's AvTech career fair last fall. Considering how much the industry has changed in just the last 8 months, I have made plans to attend in 2008 and will do my best to help those following behind me get the knowledge and info they need to succeed in this clusterfark of an industry.

Whatever. You obviously have an defensive answer for everything. You're the expert chief ;)

Embrace the difference, we're all in it for the same reason ( Love of Flying ? )

If this isn't considered whining about whining... what is this considered? Grow a pair and say something meaningful... like i said before no one appreciates this passive aggressive attempt to knock others with a "holier than thou" attitude. Pretty weak.

Be a man... make a truthful and yet still blunt statement and then back it up with fact and defend yourself against others weak arguments.