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-   -   What Lack of Scope will Do (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/27598-what-lack-scope-will-do.html)

ToiletDuck 06-18-2008 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by JungleBus (Post 406586)
I hate to say it but you hit the nail on the head. As long as individual MECs have the autonomy they have and must undercut each other to secure their flying, ALPA (or any union) is of rather limited use. ALPA's very structure is hurting us...we need more central control with the ability to set payrates across the board.

Re-regulation.

Superpilot92 06-18-2008 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by JungleBus (Post 406583)
...such as it is. It's not anything like pre-BK scope, that's for damn sure.

You're right but my point was the comments about the regionals growing 55% is not anything new. Scope should have never been given up, some did and that line is still being held. Nothing has changed as far as compass or mesaba goes so that "announcement" of the regionals growing 55% isnt an additional 55%. We should get you guys on board here and get this over with. That flying should have stayed at mainline and you should be at mainline IMHO.

Justdoinmyjob 06-18-2008 09:25 AM


Originally Posted by Superpilot92 (Post 406595)
We should get you guys on board here and get this over with. That flying should have stayed at mainline and you should be at mainline IMHO.

That is a good idea, however, it's now going to have to wait til after the SLI.

Swat 06-18-2008 09:42 AM


Originally Posted by N2rotation (Post 406523)
I know, just imagine if we were all on the same page; like if Skywest pilots voted ALPA! Nothing like unity to stand against what we believe in. SAPA isn't going to save us thats for sure.


Why single out only one of the non union pilot groups? I understand that you are pro ALPA. I think all pilots would join a union that worked with a company instead of destroying it by driving wages through the roof or let mec battle mec during mergers, did not have its own political agenda and would set across the nation wages, benefits and working conditions.

It would be interesting to see how someone at OO or WN has faired financially thru their career vs a person who maybe made more for a few years then was furloughed, concessioned etc. This is just food for thought?

Slipstream 06-18-2008 10:18 AM

Are you nuts?? SAPA may not have any legal teeth, but take a look at ALPA's bona fide "victories" and see what the hell that gets you. Nuffin.

Stick with SAPA, buy up AOPA's professional legal services plan if you feel the need (I recommend it), and count yourself ahead of the game.


Originally Posted by N2rotation (Post 406523)
I know, just imagine if we were all on the same page; like if Skywest pilots voted ALPA! Nothing like unity to stand against what we believe in. SAPA isn't going to save us thats for sure.


JungleBus 06-18-2008 12:53 PM


Originally Posted by ToiletDuck (Post 406587)
Re-regulation.

Re-regulation, no... I don't like the idea of giving unelected bureaucrats total control over my career. If you think an anti-labor NMB is bad, think about life under an anti-labor CAB. Just because the industry would be regulated like pre-1978 doesn't mean the regulators would have the same priorities. You can bet affordable tickets would be near the top of their list.

What I'm talking about is a national pilots' guild formed in cooperation with all the unions. Set rates across the industry so nobody is undercutting anybody and airlines are forced to compete on the competence of their management rather than their ability to whipsaw labor.

HIREME 06-18-2008 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by JungleBus (Post 406736)
What I'm talking about is a national pilots' guild formed in cooperation with all the unions. Set rates across the industry so nobody is undercutting anybody and airlines are forced to compete on the competence of their management rather than their ability to whipsaw labor.

Absolutely...Just hafta find somebody to lead the charge.

dojetdriver 06-18-2008 01:15 PM


Originally Posted by Slipstream (Post 406640)
Are you nuts?? SAPA may not have any legal teeth, but take a look at ALPA's bona fide "victories" and see what the hell that gets you. Nuffin.

I guess you weren't paying attention during the attempted buyout of XJT by SKW.

ExperimentalAB 06-18-2008 01:37 PM


Originally Posted by dojetdriver (Post 406748)
I guess you weren't paying attention during the attempted buyout of XJT by SKW.

Yes...XJet's contract did good by them in that instance for sure. But I'd say that their united Pilot group would do more any day of the week...

contrails 06-18-2008 01:48 PM


Originally Posted by ExperimentalAB (Post 406765)
Yes...XJet's contract did good by them in that instance for sure. But I'd say that their united Pilot group would do more any day of the week...

But only one of them is legally binding.


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