Serious idea!
 

I searched for this subject and to my surprise didn't find much of anything on it on APC. However, if it has been talked about and I'm missing something I apologize.

Well, by now we all know that the industry is suffering and we as pilots will always feel the effects which make for much unneeded stress and changes to our QOL. So I'm going to be up front and say that I hope we can keep this thread serious and as mature as we can. It seems as though all that takes priority with-in the industry is only in the best interest of the share holders and quite frankly I'm sure we are all fed up with it. What about us? We really need to start thinking about ourselves as crew members and our hard work and dedication we put forth everyday. Our safety record (of which we have control over) is pretty impressive given all of the risks and hazards we are confronted with everyday. Passengers have no clue what we do to get them to their destination safely, comfortably and on time. For that we should be rewarded not by our companies but by the customers themselves.

I don't understand why there has never been a crew member "tipping" process implemented (although I suppose the netjet guys may be taken care of). In every other facet of the travel industry people are tipped. For example - cab drivers, limo drivers, charter bus drivers, boat crews, hotel drivers etc. Why is it not assumed that passengers should tip their crewmembers (including FA's) for their job well done? Of course I understand that people have the misconception that pilots make way too much which is not the case.

Take a 70 seater RJ for example: Do a good job as a crew and everyone feels compelled to tip 1 dollar. Well that's $70 for the crew to split 4 ways. 17.50 a person and say you do 4 legs that day. Well that's 70 extra bucks you made that day. Do this each day of a 4 day and that's an extra 280 in your pocket that the wife nor the gov has to know how much you pulled in. This is just an example and I know there are other variables. I know that amongst all of those ungrateful pax there are a few generous ones out there that would put a few bucks in the bowl if they knew it was the right thing to do and eventually just like in the food industry it would be only natural for people to tip. Obviously there would be some complications with the logistics of this process and who gets to divide it up and how that would be done. But hey, restaurants have no problem doing it.

In all seriousness does anyone have anything else to add on why this couldn't be a reality? I'd be willing to do what ever I could to find this a tradition in every cabin, especially in these times where guys are taking stupid pay cuts again. Thanks for your input and please keep it professional.

AB~

I've always been a proponent of tipping...the jar would be available at boarding, and how full it gets would determine the quality of the ride and landing.

But seriously, nobody is going to want to tip an overpaid pilot who's already making $200K+ for working 8 days/month. That is the perception...

i think tipping would take the profession down a notch, along the lines of the after mentioned cab drivers, hotel drivers, etc etc

True, you wouldn't want to take it down to the level of guys that make more than some regional pilots do.

But Ricks comment is too spot on.

Being totally serious, the management would find a way to take part of those tips. Probably more like 90% of the tips. I don't see professionals like doctors or lawyers getting tips for their jobs. But then again they are well compensated as is...

Exactly, that's the only reason we would need tips. Unless they can figure out how to pay us more. Which is never going to happen. As far as managements part, it would have to be worked out through the union as a contractual item. I would imagine the whole thing would have to be done through the union since it wouldn't benefit the company any. But that rules out non-union guys. Oh so many variables! Why do we have to make things so difficult. Seems so simple yet a pretty tough task non the less.:rolleyes:

That's the real problem, we need to really work on fixing that perception. Gotta get it all over the news and newspapers. People are definitely following the news, they are addicted to it. If we keep on it eventually they will understand.

That's why you don't get a tip. If you think your training and expertise is worth that little, go ahead and ask for tips, just leave the airline industry before you do so. I hope you tip your doctors too...

I can't believe you're actually serious:confused:

...at the same time, it's sad when an airline pilot gets excited at the prospect of earning an extra $300 a month. Please, the profession has lost most of what it used to be. Let's not entertain the idea of dragging it further down.

Rick, I agree with 99.999% of what you post, but what happens to your passenger ratings when you plant it on a wet runway with a 25kt crosswind? They get a firm landing and then they leave all upset that the pilot didn't grease it on. Little do they know that the firm landing spared them a trip into the real estate surrounding the airport. Do you really trust pax to evaluate your competence/ability as a pilot?

while I like the idea of tipping for a good service rendered, I think that ship sailed before it was even built.

The better idea, how do we change the perception of what we really are? Not a real question, but just something to make you think.

Here is a experiment idea. Someone who is flying with a good crew, maybe just hang a friendly note the cockpit door and see if there is any takers.

I really do not think that matters in the grand scheme of things. There are going to be times that you have to plant one on. And you going to make some of the folks mad, but **** on it, you can please everyone all the time. If everyone knew how to critique our landings everyday on every flight and knew what they were talking about, then it seem there would be alot of pilots and they would know what is going on, and we know that is not the case. I have also seen a fair amount of business travelers out there that know some, and they know good weather from bad, and good landings from bad. and for those of us that are flying 50 seaters and less, there is not too many people at any one time to make mad or happy, I but of the course of 4 days it would be a wash. Plus with us flying turboprop schedules with a jet, plenty of time to make cash.

Long story short, just a bunch of what if's

They are also considered White Collar workers, sadly airline management view us as Over Paid blue collar workers sorta like bus drivers, also in the professions you mention their is a progression that is usually followed, a Doc typically gets a Degree then goes to Med School then does a few years of residency then maybe a fellowship or 2.. that can take years then once all this if finished you have to pass boards some way along the way..

Now comes the FAST TRACK to flying a Jet doing .70 mach at FL 360 all you need is several thousand dollars and you too can fly a jet in 9 months.

ok rant over time to continue watching 24 reruns

Skipper, I totally understand your point. And a good one it is. I look at it this way. When it comes to the flying public and their perception of us being all high and mighty (the opposite of a cab driver, limo driver, bus driver) we are to blame for giving them that picture of us being stuck up paid too much to work too little pilots. I suppose not "you and me" but the guys of the past that did have that attitude and really fed that image to everyone. We are not those guys and may never be again. But it doesn't matter because that's they way they see us. The same reason they hold high expectations on a wrapped up technical app to landing that ended up perfect from our point of view and too rough by theirs.

Management knows who we are and their decision to pay us what we are worth or not has nothing to do with how we present ourselves. They know damn well how much work and dedication went into achieving a career as a pilot. Our self perception (ie. not in the same boat or level as a hotel van driver) obviously plays no role in how well we are compensated as we have been trying and trying to prove we are worth more. Go ahead, carry a bag down the stairs for some old lady. She sure isn't going to waste the tip on you. She's saving it for the hotel van driver since he could use it more to pay back all of the training it took to get to be that van driver. And next time he hands you your bag and you go ahead and throw em a buck for all the effort, remember it's your self image that's ultimately holding you back from that real comfortable living that we are all looking for. I know 300 bucks isn't much but hey it's a start. I know if I was shorted 300 bucks I'd feel it. JMO..........

Afterburn,

I won't sit here and presume to know about your financial situation, but please, think about the long term. This is a slippery slope if I've ever seen one. Pilots may not be as high and mighty as those of yesterday, but we are not that low either. Management does everything to put pilots down, and we don't help by arguing amongst ourselves. Why should we help them push us further down? What if management says they'll pay less now that this tip system is in place?

As a pilot, you are a highly skilled professional. You do not get tips.

Ditto, you have to see it from the point that we are professionals. It has nothing to do with how much we earn in comparison to other professionals (e.g. surgeons, dentists, etc). It's more about doing the job and having pride in doing it well.

While the idea naturally sounds pleasing to think about having an extra $200/wk in our pockets, it's not worth the degrading of image.

We don't tip surgeons for saving lives. It's considered an obligation for every professional to do a good job with high standards. Taxi drivers, waiters, etc, while they SHOULD provide good service because, in the end, that IS the job they signed up for, don't have any obligation to please you but more like meeting the requirements of the business who they work for. The tip is only an incentive for them to cater to you, the individual.

Do the math and figure out how much each passenger is paying you. Say you do a 1.5 block flight and your pay comes out to 40/hour for that flight, that means you made 60 for that flight. 70 seat RJ = 70 pax, each person paid you 85 cents. What a nice tip! Increase their fares by 85 cents and double my paycheck, why dont ya.

You're already getting "tipped." It's called your paycheck. :(

You want me to tip a whole dollar? Why should I have to tip like 25% of what I paid on priceline for my ticket?

SS Minow,

I was thinking of attaching last years w-2 to the tip jar so I could help change the perception.

I could also put a brochure out describing crash pads, or life as a commuter. The only prestige we have in the false belief of the public, which is why when pilots want to have a work action, the people are never going to be behind us.

I can't even get paid for a full day's work. work a flight to this airport, sit for 4 hours, than 2 more legs. duty day.....12.5 hours.....pay....4

I would also pass the tip jar around for on time departure, and arrival. :D

But in all seriousness, my wife told a co-worker how abismal my first year pay was....said co-worker thought she was lying.

Its sad for us as professional airline pilots to have to even consider this as a means to get fair compensation. All that hard work we put into training, sacrificing time away from our families and trying to do it right 100% of the time and we can't even get paid a liveable wage??? What a mess the profession has become with low wages, furloughs and mistreatment by management. I'm going to go finish my cardboard sign "will fly for food"...

Ok, so in all seriousness and I'm not being sarcastic, to sum it all up: people find their self image much more important than paying the bills. I guess it's much better knowing that people "think" Im this highly paid professional and it's all a big secret that we are paid a pretty pathetic wage for doing what we do. (and Im talkin about all you captains out there that have put in your time and got nothing for it.) If we are in the same league as "doctors and surgeons" as some people pointed out, why have we been taken so advantage of with respect to pay? You don't see any doctor or surgeon just keep on working as if nothing changed when the person that pays them just decided to pay them significantly less.

So you were "ok" with flying for a significantly less than people were paid before but being "tipped" or given a "pat on the back" for the fact that the passengers now know how little we are paid is not ok. Sounds kind of silly and contradicting to the point of upholding our self image.

Pilots should not have to rely on tips to survive, they are professional aviators, not pizza delivery drivers.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking...... It looks like we only have $75 in the tip jar and we need a solid $100 to take off. Also in order to land at the correct destination we need an additional $100 in the tip jar. We thank you for your compliance and once you have tipped us, just sit back, relax and enjoy your flight...... where you have to pay for drinks and the crappy snack pack.

Agreed !!! I needed 10 characters

Indeed, and that is the point! You do NOT see them, because they don't do it. Picture it, the ambulance rushes into the ER. Motor vehicle accident. The guy has a broken arm and a broken leg. The Emergency physicians stabilize him, then call the orthopedic surgeon and explain the details. First question the surgeon asks- "does he have insurance?"

If the answer is yes, he'll come in and do his work, because he knows he'll be paid when he bills. If the answer is no, the surgeon stays at home, because he knows that there's a very real chance that he will not be paid for his services.

I's high time pilots realized that we have the industry by the gonads and refuse to work for less than we're worth. Doctors do it. Lawyers do it. Engineers do it. Mechanics do it. Plumbers do it. Why don't pilots do it?

RLA. RLA. RLA. RLA.

That should be 10 characters.

And there is no progression in aviation? You get your private, then commercial, an instrument somewhere along the way, maybe a CFI/MEI, figure out how you're gonna get a hundred hours of multi, then start at a good regional, make $22,000 a year, get furloughed, move to a crummy regional with growth, a couple years later upgrade to Captain, then be on reserve for a couple years, then just as you start to get some QOL you have to finish that college degree and start interviewing with the majors where, after several job fairs and interviews, you might get a job making $40,000, you're commuting across the country to their junior base, and hope there's no furloughs because five years later you're making $70,000 but you're still only 80 numbers from the bottom. Maybe in another 15 years, if the airline that selected you is still around, you'll be making about what a MD is earning. Speaking of having to pass the boards, how many chances will a career pilot have to bust a ride or lose his medical?


The door closed on this guy a month ago, now he's wishing he had a CFI ticket in addition to 20 hours in a CRJ simulator. You aren't saying a new-hire regional FO has the same lifestyle as a surgeon or attorney, are you? Of course, the public may think so.

You knew what the pay was when you accepted the job didn't you? If you want tips work for Dominos on your days off.

Compared to the payscale I signed up for, I'm down about $9,000 each year thanks to BK and pay cuts.

Your airline gives you days off???

I would never accept a tip as a professional Aviator...

There are days though that you act like you have more money than brains.

I mean no offense by that, but I never hear you talk about money issues and have a problem with it, I am glad to hear that you have taken care of yourself. There are many more out there that are in the mist of severe desperation and really do not know what to do next.

I really think this was a fun thread talking about tip money, but the real theme is we are underpaid across the board, and we take it without lube.

Reeves

Lets get real!
 

Exactly, be a professional not a pizza delivery guy. Would you really want money from a pax for doing your job by getting them somewhere SAFE and ontime.

I suggest we all look to Mr Pink for his wisdom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgBGRfSvfxY

I'll drink to that! I don't believe we're even entertaining the thought on APC.

I'm against all forms of tipping. It seems everyone wants a tip. Where do you draw the line? Tipping the hotel van driver for something he's already getting paid for? We do the same thing as the van driver but their job requires a conciderable amount of less skill. Now dont get me started on food waiters!

Flying is SRS BSNS!

Why are pilots bound by something called the railway act? I can see how in the very early days, they would have just thrown us in with the trains, but I'd think that we've evolved sufficiently to have our own act by now.

Sorry to break it to ya, but the media doesn't give two ****s about pilots.

I'm with those who think that a professional does not accept tips. The only people I think are the exception to this rule are waiters. And I only think that because the restaurants get away with paying them less than minimum wage because they've convinced somebody that tips are a part of their income, which is complete bovine excrement.

Even so, tipping really only seems appropriate when somebody does something for you that you could have done yourself. Waiters, cab drivers, pizza delivery drivers, and the like don't do anything that you couldn't have done. Tipping them is just a monetary "thank you" for keeping me from having to get up to get my food, drive to the airport, or go get my pizza. We do a job that our customers (typically) can't do for themselves, and therefore it's a skilled profession, and not one that should be tipped.

Than I'm gonna quit tipping my barber - I surely can't cut my own hair :rolleyes: