Eagle displacement bid
 

This is going to be bad. Real bad. Good luck


<30 Ord Ca Crj <31 Jan 09
<31 Ord Fo Crj <31 Jan 09
<100 Jfk Ca Emj <31 Jan 09
<92 Jfk Fo Emj <31 Jan 09
<5 Lax Ca Emj <31 Jan 09
<1 Lax Fo Emj <31 Jan 09
<9 Ord Fo Emj <31 Jan 09
<50 Dfw Ca Atr <31 Jan 09
<49 Dfw Fo Atr <31 Jan 09
<38 Dfw Ca Crj <31 Jan 09
<43 Dfw Fo Crj <31 Jan 09
<all Bos Ca Emj <31 Jan 09
<all Bos Fo Emj <31 Jan 09
<28 Dfw Fo Emj <31 Jan 09
<43 Lga Ca Emj <31 Jan 09
<24 Lga Fo Emj <31 Jan 09
<13 Mia Ca Atr <31 Jan 09
<8 Mia Fo Atr <31 Jan 09
<27 Sju Ca Atr <31 Jan 09
<12 Sju Fo Atr <31 Jan 09
<all Dfw Ca Sf3 <31 Jan 09
<all Dfw Fo Sf3 <31 Jan 09
<all Lax Ca Sf3 <31 Jan 09
<all Lax Fo Sf3 <31 Jan 09

Good luck guys. Hang in there.

Maybe its just late, but I don't get it. Is this the number in each base out of work, or that will have to relocate, or what?

can u explain what that number means?

it looks like, how many ppl they need to get rid of at each base. Take a look at LAX on the saab

vacancies - the number open slots for pilots needed at the bases. Look at JFK. We don't currently have a JFK base, but we are sending nearly 200 pilots there.
<30 Ord Ca Crj <31 Jan 09¶
<31 Ord Fo Crj <31 Jan 09¶
<100 Jfk Ca Emj <31 Jan 09¶
<92 Jfk Fo Emj <31 Jan 09¶
<5 Lax Ca Emj <31 Jan 09¶
<1 Lax Fo Emj <31 Jan 09¶
<9 Ord Fo Emj <31 Jan 09¶
<50 Dfw Ca Atr <31 Jan 09¶
<49 Dfw Fo Atr <31 Jan 09¶

displacements- How many pilots will be pushed out of their base.
<38 Dfw Ca Crj <31 Jan 09¶
<43 Dfw Fo Crj <31 Jan 09¶
<all Bos Ca Emj <31 Jan 09¶
<all Bos Fo Emj <31 Jan 09¶
<28 Dfw Fo Emj <31 Jan 09¶
<43 Lga Ca Emj <31 Jan 09¶
<24 Lga Fo Emj <31 Jan 09¶
<13 Mia Ca Atr <31 Jan 09¶
<8 Mia Fo Atr <31 Jan 09¶
<27 Sju Ca Atr <31 Jan 09¶
<12 Sju Fo Atr <31 Jan 09¶
<all Dfw Ca Sf3 <31 Jan 09¶
<all Dfw Fo Sf3 <31 Jan 09¶
<all Lax Ca Sf3 <31 Jan 09¶
<all Lax Fo Sf3 <31 Jan 09

The 31 Jan 09 means the lastest date transfers or training can occur to displace them.

There is a sizable net lose here. Over 100 CAs possibably going back to FO as well. Don't ask me to run numbers, I have already proven tonight that results in jokes :P

thats 603 not including the <ALL
I really hope your wrong

i hope so to. i dont work for ae, but since they are getting rid of the saabs i put the 2 and 2 together

It is the number which will be reduced out of each base, equipment, and seat.

They will probably rebid the whole system...

Senior folks on the downsized airplanes will retrain on other equipment.

Junior CA's will be become senior FO's.

Senior FO's will go to reserve.

Junior FO's will become fast-food technicians.

Senior folks on non-downsized equipment will be unaffected.

yeah, why did you post that all as displacement when the first bunch is vacancy?

649 displacements and only 367 vacancies leaves 282. There will be a massive training bubble in the mean time and maybe things will pick up in the mean time. I would expect some from the closing bases will give up on it all and those who live in base but get displaced by a senior guy could make this all very interesting. Good luck guys.

Duck, the fan is on and the company has a shovel full of the stinky stuff

These numbers were generated out of necessity assuming that boston would be closed. Per our contract, the vacancy bid must be opened for 15 days. Were it not published today, the company would not have enough time to begin transition/upgrade classes for the first August class. If by chance, boston is not closed and/or JFK and LGA are not made into co-domiciles, the whole configuration will change.

Well, we haven't received a "WARN" letter yet, but it definitely looks like a furlough is imminent. Eaglelounge folk are running numbers that look like 272 excess pilots.

I am personally just on the "safe" end of those numbers, but I am not sure how the CA going to FO will effect the numbers.

Good luck guys, it looks like they are moving some ATR's to DFW... WHY?

133 captains back to fo, means 130 fos will be bumped added to the extra 130. 260 - 300 fos furloughed sounds about right!!!:confused:

they are closing boston? that sucks for those guys its a bad time in this industry all over good luck guys

The captain displacements to FO are accounted for in the 260 number but we need to keep in mind the LOAs, part-time lines and possible resignations as bases close.

These numbers are inline with early estimates of 10% reductions minus the shortage we had. It looks like all the 2008 newhires are in real jeopardy. What a waste to spend all the money qualifying these guys then send them out on the street.

What's up with the DFW/ORD CRJ swap? Was this planned before hand? Is DFW CRJ not available at all anymore?

Also, if someone gets displaced out of a t-prop into a jet (not proffer but involuntary) can that person bid back to prop on the next system bid? An example-

A Saab FO in Dallas has for a displacement bid any jet anywhere in the system and so his seniority will hold ERJ ORD. Later he wants to go back to Dallas so a vacancy opens for ATR and his seniority will hold it. Can he go back? Please included the Contract language where this is addressed.

You must not be up to date with whats going down at Eagle. It is my understanding that ALL Eagle Saab's are being parked, a big portion of which were based in DFW. They are moving ATR's from SJU to DFW to start flying some of the "soon to be" former Saab routes. More PAX per plane on less flights per day = saving money............something like that

Waco will be going all jet later this fall. The ATRs will come back to DFW but will not be on all the current SAAB routes. Many of the SAAB routes are going to the jet - ACT, TYR, and GGG so far. Sounds really logical to me :rolleyes:

We do get above 4000 going back to DFW. The routing is longer than it is on the way down to ACT. We went back at 10000 this morning and I have done it at 11000 before.

That makes sense, so it's OBVIOUSLY not the answer.

Also, the reduction of flying from AA out of San Juan requires less feed into it. Spare ATRs, perfect fit in DFW.

haha.. people are laughing at me for putting LAX ATR on my displacement bid.... we'll see what happens!!

There are apparently a few more displacements than there are vacancies. Interesting. Maybe I need to brush up on my burger flipping technique!

My question is - if you have a seat lock are you still bound by it? Can an ATR guy/gal bid and get CRJ with 8 months left on a seat lock?

The only seat locks being released are on the SF3. SF3 pilots can bid for any of the vacancies listed. If you are seat locked you won't be awarded the posted vacancies but you may be displaced during this whole cluster. If you are involuntarily displaced you will not be seat locked in your new status. If you proffer to displace you will be seat locked.

The All in BOS for CA & FO is around 225 alone

2500 lbs per hour at those altitudes if memory serves me correctly.

If he/she goes to the CRJ they will be stuck there until they upgrade or another displacement takes place. You can not bid from jet to jet. If he/she displaces to a turboprop, then they can later bid to a jet, as well as upgrade or get displaced again. Be very careful what you put in for your displacements. If you end up in the CRJ you will be stuck with a base at either DFW or ORD. No way back to EMB LAX or JFK unless you upgrade or get displaced again.

You can, however, bid from ERJ to CRJ same seat, just not the reverse. According to the latest MEC email, if you displace into "higher" equipment, you cannot vacancy bid back to the "lower" equipment once this settles down. I think this has already been stated, but just wanted to try to clarify. A San Juan ATR CA, if displaced to Dallas EMJ CA, cannot vacancy bid back to Dallas ATR CA even if his seniority will hold it.

FOs cannot do this, only captains can. For FO's there is no pay increase and it is considered a lateral move.

No, you can't go from jet to jet. You can by way of displacement, but you can't bid back on a later vacancy. In other words, you could displace from the EMB in BOS to CRJ in ORD. However, you could not bid back to JFK or anywhere else into the EMB by vacancy bid. It would have to be another displacement bid. The only time you can vacancy bid from jet to jet is for an upgrade (seat change).


The rest is correct.

I will predict the most JR CA will be sept or oct/99 after the displacement. Any takers?

so 275 pilots goes back to a hire date of? Sorry to hear that fellas.

Can anyone actually confirm that Eagle is completely closing their Boston base? I have a bunch of friends who are based there.

Ask and you shall recieve.....
 

Winkley blames the union.

AMERICAN EAGLE PILOTS:
MOST OF YOU HAVE SEEN THE DISPLACEMENT BID THAT WAS POSTED
LAST NIGHT AND I WANT TO TAKE A FEW MINUTES TO GIVE YOU
SOME BACKGROUND AS TO WHY BOSTON IS BEING CLOSED AS A
DOMICILE.
OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, MANAGEMENT AND THE ALPA
NEGOTIATING TEAM HAVE BEEN MEETING TO ATTEMPT TO WORK OUT
A CO-DOMICILE LETTER OF AGREEMENT FOR THE LGA-JFK DOMICILES
WHICH WOULD HAVE GIVEN US THE STAFFING FLEXIBILITY TO KEEP
BOSTON OPEN AS A DOMICILE. WE HAD ORIGINALLY PLANNED ON
POSTING A DISPLACEMENT BID ON JULY 6TH AND POSTPONED THAT
FOR A WEEK IN HOPES OF WORKING OUT THE CO-DOMICILE ISSUE.
DUE TO THE NEED TO GET OUR PILOTS TRAINED TO BE IN PLACE
FOR THE NOVEMBER SCHEDULE, WE WERE UNABLE TO POSTPONE THE DISPLACEMENT BID ANY FURTHER WITHOUT THE CO-DOMICILE SOLUTION, BASED ON THE FLYING THAT AA HAS ASKED US TO PERFORM, WE DETERMINED THAT WE CAN BEST SERVE AA BY CLOSING BOSTON AND OPENING JFK. WE BELIEVE THAT A LGA-JFK CO-DOMICILE AND A SMALLER BOS DOMICILE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COMPANY AND OUR PILOTS AND WE REGRET THAT WE WERE UNABLE TO GAIN
AGREEMENT WITH ALPA FOR THE CO-DOMICILE SOLUTION.

FLY SAFE
JIM WINKLEY
VP FLIGHT OPERATIONS

The unions response:

Fellow American Eagle Pilots:



Yesterday afternoon, your MEC convened via teleconference to discuss three agenda items. First, whether to waive the required ten day posting period for the draft letter of agreement on JFK-LGA Co-Domiciles. The second agenda item was a possible vote on ratification of the LOA predicated on the MEC electing to waive the posting requirement. Lastly, was a discussion on the displacement process that will be used in the upcoming simultaneous vacancy / displacement bid. We want to thank all of the pilots who took the time to listen in on the MEC’s discussion of these items.



As many of you are already aware, the MEC elected not to waive the posting requirement for the draft letter of agreement on JFK-LGA Co-Domiciles. The general consensus was that there was not yet enough information available on which to base a ratification decision on such a matter that would have such a dramatic and irreversible impact on a large number of Eagle pilots. Because the posting requirement was not waived, the MEC could not move forward with a vote on the merits of the draft LOA. The posting requirement expires on Saturday, July 19th.



With reference to the vacancy/displacement bid process, I would ask all pilots to take note of a few important provisions: Despite the fact they will both be processed on the same day and the results posted together, the vacancy bid will be run before the displacement bid. For example, the 50 DFW ATR Captain vacancies will be filled before the company runs ATR Captain displacements from San Juan. As a result, the 27 San Juan Captain displacements currently forecast may be significantly less than 27 if a number of San Juan ATR Captains vacancy bid out of San Juan ATR Captain during the vacancy bid. As soon as the vacancy bid is concluded, the company will reevaluate the number of displacements necessary in light of the vacancy results before processing the displacements.



Continuing with our earlier example, let’s suppose that the 27 San Juan ATR Captain displacements are now adjusted to 17 San Juan ATR Captain displacements as a result of 10 San Juan ATR Captains vacancy bidding out of SJU. The company will then look at the resultant list of San Juan ATR Captains and will identify the 17 junior San Juan ATR Captains subject to displacement. If a more senior San Juan ATR Captain has submitted a proffer to displace that would require training if awarded, the proffering pilot will be required to use the seniority of the most senior pilot subject to displacement (i.e. the most senior of the 17). On the other hand, if a more senior San Juan ATR Captain has submitted a proffer to displace that does not require training (e.g. SCA to DCA), he will use his own seniority when determining whether or not he can hold the status he is attempting to proffer in to. Let me give a practical example. Let’s suppose that the most senior of the 17 pilots subject to displacement from SCA holds seniority number 1255. If a senior San Juan ATR Captain wants to proffer to DCA, he will use his own seniority to determine whether or not he can hold DCA. If on the other hand a senior San Juan ATR Captain wants to proffer to displace to DCE, he will only be able to do so if seniority number 1255 can hold DCE. Otherwise, his proffer will be denied.



In order to alert the company that you want to proffer to displace, a pilot must submit a RF 100 PDIS. This RF mask simply alerts the company to the fact that you want to proffer to displace. But in order to record the statuses into which you wish to proffer, you must update your displacement preferences in your 3*. Let’s suppose that a San Juan ATR Captain wants to proffer to DCE. If he is not awarded his proffer of DCE, he wants to stay in SCA. If though, he is involuntarily displaced from SCA and he cannot hold DCE, he wants to go to SFA. How does the pilot alert the company that he only wants to proffer to DCE and that the SFA in his displacement preference is not a request to proffer but a preference in the event he is involuntarily displaced? He does so by making DCE his first displacement preference followed by his current status of SCA, followed by his involuntary displacement preference of SFA. When the company is awarding proffers, the way they know that they have reached the end of a pilot’s proffer preferences is when they hit his current status. Anything below his current status is considered to be an involuntary displacement preference. In other words, by inserting your current status into your displacement preferences, you are indicating to the company that they have reached the end of your proffer preferences and have reached your involuntary displacement preferences.



Secondly, it is imperative that displaced pilots understand that although they will not incur a seat lock in the equipment they have displaced into (including proffer-to-displace), the vacancy bidding rules still apply. For example, a Boston Embraer Captain may think that it would be interesting to displace into Chicago Canadair for a period of time before vacancy bidding back into a northeast Embraer Captain position. But he needs to realize that under our contract, pilots may not vacancy bid from Canadair Captain to any other equipment, even if they are in the Canadair as the result of a displacement. That is because even though the Captain in this example will not incur a training freeze upon being displaced into the Canadair, the vacancy bidding prohibition still applies (See Section 15.E). Another example might be a Dallas based Canadair First Officer who thinks he can displace into an Embraer First Officer position until he can hold Canadair First Officer again. At some point, he puts in a vacancy bid for Canadair First Officer and he is denied. When he calls the union or the chief pilot to find out why his vacancy bid was denied, he finds out the under our contract, turbo-jet First Officers cannot vacancy bid into different turbo-jet equipment. Just because he was displaced into the Embraer and did not incur a training lock at that time, he is still bound by the vacancy bidding rules of the CBA.



If you have any questions about this process, please contact your local representatives or the MEC office. It is imperative that pilots take the time to fully understand the displacement and proffer to displace processes prior to a simultaneous vacancy / displacement bid, especially one of this magnitude. We will be using our blast email system to break up the contents of this letter and send out more specifics over the next two weeks.



Lastly, management is currently working on an application for long-term leaves of absence. They are also working on an appropriate removal code and other in-house issues that will take approximately one week to resolve. In the interim period, all pilots who wish to request a long-term leave of absence under the newly ratified letter of agreement should see their chief pilot and place themselves on the list of pilots who wish to participate in this program. Once the company makes available the appropriate long-term leave application, the company will be reviewing long-term leave requests. Awards will be in pilot seniority order by status.



Your MEC is continuing to work on mitigation efforts to offset the negative impact of this reduction in our flying. We encourage pilots to continue to provide input to their local representatives especially those in the northeast where we are still working to find a solution that best protects our northeast pilots without placing undo burden on one group over another. Thank you for your unwavering support and patience during this unstable and trying time.

Thats pretty much all of the 2008 newhires +/-

Coldpilot

Any clue what happens to yall Saab guys when September-ish comes around, be it transition training to the ERJ/ATR, flipping burgers, etc.?

Whatever the results of the displacement bid hold for each one of us. One thing is for sure though, there is either a curb or a long term training event in the near future for every one of us.

Anyone know when the preliminary results for the displacement bid are supposed to be out? I believe I heard someone say around a week after the bid opened. Anybody else heard this or am I just dreaming it?