Exactly. If you are involuntarily displaced then there is no seat lock. Proferring to displace, however, still carries a seat lock.

I hate the word proffer. Its so weird.

well it worked for me! remainder of seatlock is in new equipt

Don't feel bad.

My Nassau A-380 bid didn't come thru either. I was looking for a 20 day off line that paid 100 hours, but I'll have to hold off on that request now.

The preliminary has a lot of mistakes on it. The CA I am flying with this month and I have been going through it with a fine tooth comb. Several people were able to proffer out of a seat lock, which should not have happened. Wait for the final award that Crew Planning will publish. I'm sure if the mistakes aren't fixed the guys and gals that got bent over because of it will be filing grievances.

The was one person awarded DCE while someone much more senior to him was displaced from DCE. :eek:

Right and wrong. A 3P proffer has a seat lock, a 3D proffer does not since it is part of a displacement bid.

You are confusing a 3P proffer with a RF100 PDIS with the 3D proffer.

The 3D is for Displacement. Anything at or above your current status is a proffer to displace on the displacement bid.... and anything after your current status is an involuntary displacement (which the company then has to pay your moving expenses for up to 10,000 pounds of household furnishings and stuff.)

There is no seat lock on a displacement bid. So, as an DFE you could enter a 3P for OFC and not get it because you are seat locked for a 3P bid preference... then in your 3D list enter OFC first followed by DFE. The OFC is at or above the DFE so it would be a proffer to displace on the displacement bid, and would not have a seat lock.

Do any of you people read the bulletins on Jetnet or listen to the teleconferences??
The Displacement Summary is still on the Eagle pilots page of jetnet. Go read it, and pay extra attention to the examples at the end. There is no seatlock if you proffer to displace on the displacement bid preference; there is a seat lock on regular bid preferences.

I must correct my earlier statement that proffering will create a seat lock. Mason32 is correct.

However, you still can't proffer to displace if you are currently seat locked.

Still wrong. On the *3 list it will show your bid pref's (3P's)... these are subject to seat lock

under them is the Displacement preferences (3D's)
junior people should have listed just about everything on this list in order of their preference.... someplace on that list should have been your current status.
The 3P's are used for the vacancy bid, and the seat lock would/did apply. Then when they ran the displacement bid you would get whatever you could hold in order of your list preference.... anything ABOVE or at your current status was a proffer to displace (no company paid moving expenses) and anythign below was an involuntary displacement, with moving expenses... once they ran the displacement bid, there were no seat locks.

That being said. People had to be cautious what they bid into, if they displaced from EMB to CRJ they would then become seat locked in the CRJ until they upgraded or until another displacement bid was run.

more like 3*... i have no life! hahaha:o

No disrespect or anything but you asked if we read the stuff put out by the company and the union. I'm wondering if you read it all. If you read the "101" guide put out by ALPA as well as the contract it states that you can't proffer to displace if you are currently under training freeze.

Absolutely. Read the Vacancy/Displacement Bid summary that's on the Eagel pilot page on jetnet. It does say that they are doing it differently than was done in the past due to so many complaints/problems over mistaken proffers to displace.

To proffer to displace you now had to send an RF message, as well as list your choices in the 3D list ABOVE your current status. Anything after your current status is simply a displacement preference in the order you enter them. There is no seat lock for the displacement. So, you list your current status first, then where you would like to go after.... or you could even leave your current staus off the 3D list. Either way, once the displacement bid started to run, seat locks would not apply.

I spoke directly with a lawyer at the ALPA MEC office for Eagle. I was told that if I were seat locked that my 3P would be ignored. I had no ability to preference bid anything in the displacement except for the equipment I already fly. Only my 3D was necessary to fill out if I did not want to proffer to displace to DFW on the ATR. It was explained to me that 3P would go towards vacancies that I wasn't seat locked out of (ie the aforementioned DFW ATR) and 3D would be valid if I were displaced.

My feeling is this whole thing is absolutely screwed up and should probably be voided and rebid. There are too many errors in it -- and it was not explained in any way, shape or form that could be considered adequate for something with so great importance. I'm not even sure those examples were in English. I'm not a lawyer, don't pretend to be, don't play one on TV -- what chance did any of us have understanding 1/2 the crap the company put out? I don't understand legalese.

That's is what I've been saying. The 3D is the displacement, and there is no seat lock on a displacement bid. The 3P is a bid preference, and you can not bid to a vacancy while under seat lock... that didn't change. The confusion is people don't understand that you can proffer to displace on the DISPLACEMENT 3D bid with no seat lock. In other words, if you are displaced from your current seat, your 3D list would be the way to get yourself out of your current aircraft and/or base regardless of seat lock status.

In your case, you would not even have to list your current status first in the 3D.... since if you were displaced by a more senior person, they would just go down your 3D list and you would get whatever you could hold. However, by putting your current status first (which you wouldn't hold in this scenario) all of your subsequent 3D bids would be involuntary displacements and you would get moving expenses. Putting them above your current status woudl be read as a proffer to displace and you would not get moving expenses.

I understand that if you are displaced period that you are not seat locked, proffer or not. But you still can't proffer to displace if you are currently seat locked. I have read the contract and the summary both on jetnet and from the union.

Here it is straight from "Displacement, Furlough, and Recall 101"

There are some special displacement options to con-
sider. The Eagle ALPA contract allows for a displace-
ment bidding option known as “Proffer to Displace.”
This option, if exercised by a pilot, allows a senior
pilot to displace out of a bid status instead of a jun-
ior pilot who would otherwise be involuntarily dis-
placed. This occurs instead of the company’s
displacing pilots from a bid status in inverse senior-
ity order. However, in order for that senior pilot to
be eligible for this option, that pilot must:
• Currently hold the same bid status as the
junior pilot being displaced; and
• Not be under obligation of a training freeze;
and
• Not be a probationary pilot proffering to dis-
place to a captain bid status.

You need to read between the lines and do a little presumptive reasoning. Any person "seat locked" has been there less than a year. Unless they are seat locked because they moved to new equipment, they will not have the seniority to proffer to displace ahead of anybody else.... they already are on the bottom of the seniority list. Therefore, they can expect to be displaced. By listing their choices above their current status they are in effect proffering to displace as outlines in the Jetnet Summary. There is no seat lock. The proffer to displace is simply a method by which a senior pilot may leave their current status to go elswhere prior to a junior pilot being displaced. With few exceptions, people still seat locked, would not be senior enough to anybody to displace them anyway.

Stop reading the litteral verbage, and start applying the language to the realities of the situation. The eventual conclusion you will discover is that there are no seat locks on a simultaneous Vacancy & Displacement Bid.

You are assuming that anyone that is seat locked is on the bottom of their respective list. Not necessarily true. My original post was for FOblondie. She was wondering why she was unable to PROFFER to displace from OFE to DFA with a JAN 08 DOH and 200 people junior to her, many of which were awarded DFA on the bid, myself included. She couldn't proffer to displace to DFA because she is seat locked to the EMB despite there are people junior to her that are holding DFA. That's why she wasn't awarded DFA. That's all I was trying to point out, just answering a fellow Eagle pilot's question.

Her seat lock is due to being on probation for the first 12 months as a new hire. CBA Section 15.I.1.c. Not the same reason for seat locks that we have been discussign since then. But you are correct, in her case that is what happened. The only way she could have gotten out would have been to have enough people senior to her come into OFE above her to displace her, which would kick in her displacement preferences.

What I would like to know is the justification for the following:

The union stated they would displace 12 FOs out of SJU and 8 FOs out of MIA. In the end only 8 were displaced out of SJU (all proffers).

There were no vacancies available at either base.

However...there are MIA FOs being displaced to SJU? Now what the hell is that about???

I'm very stressed out about this whole situation. Something doesn't smell right.

Any idea if/when there will be another round of displacement/vacancy bids.

I thought that the final award released on 8/6 was the last one, but I've also heard rumors of another round.

I was wondering about the same thing. It sounds like everyone is safe (knock on wood), but is Eagle still short on pilots?

The last time my seniority number was updated, I moved up 42 numbers.
They are updated every 12th of the month I think so we'll see soon how many pilots have "attrited" and if it's close to the same as last month, that should make us only about 120-150 pilots fat. Good news considering all the pilots about to go into training.
I don't want to speak too soon, but it looks as if we might be alright.:confused:

I believe the last class to go through was the may 12th class, the had cancelled the may 26th, june 9th and which class date was next. As much as I want be optimistic about things I wouldn't suspect any training to be happening anytime soon (at least its better news then we all thought, no furlough[knock on wood])

Where is everybody getting this info about no furlough? I haven't seen anything about this other than the fact that Eagle and ALPA will be putting out some info for avoiding the situation. As far as any official word I haven't seen any. Any idea when training for the displacements will start and who they will start with? Do they start at the bottom and go up or start at the top and go down? I'm still new so if some of these questions sound ignorant, it's cause they are.

I think you misunderstood. Training is going on. He was talking about training as the result of displacment to different equipment.... not new hire training.

I agree with you. Just about every base currently is showing staffing levels with many more FO's than Capt's.... which is the reverse of actual staffing needs. I expect that if more people do not abandon ship, (either leave or LTOA) as the company hoped for, there will be well over 100 furloughs.

Still seem to be understaffed at SJU.