Originally Posted by USMCFLYR

I wonder if pilots should start reporting every time that a controller makes a mistake in reading back a clearance or giving me taxi directions to the active?
This is not a good safety culture.

USMCFLYR

Originally Posted by TheDashRocks

This "reinforcement" of an existing requirement crops up every so often. Controllers hate it because they realize that our air space system functions best when pilots and controllers understand that there is "grace" built in. Controllers have opportunities to correct the mistakes of other controllers and pilots, pilots have opportunities to correct mistakes of other pilots and controllers. Things work most smoothly when this is done in a non-punative way.

3.5 years ago the FAA declared war on controllers and imposed new work rules. The FAA leadership has tried its best to establish a penal work culture. Some controllers that have made mistakes resulting in less than required separation have been asked. "You understand what the separation rules are don't you? Perhaps you deliberately chose to use less than standard separation. Perhaps you are deliberately negligent." The FAA used to allow controllers to participate in the NASA safety reporting system in the same way as pilots. The FAA no longer holds controllers free from discipline for reporting safety occurrences.

Here are some important things for pilots to keep in mind;

-Controllers hate turning in pilots.
-If a pilot error causes a loss of separation with another aircraft or adjacent airspace, the controller may have no choice but to report the occurrence.
-If a controller is going to report an occurrence, the pilot is supposed to be told on frequency, "Possible pilot deviation at (location, altitude, time). For further information you may contact (name of facility) at (facility phone number)."
-If a pilot's mistake does not impact other traffic or adjacent controllers, the controller working the aircraft will probably take no further action.
-Like similiar efforts in years past, this one will blow over. Controllers, supervisors, and facilty managers do not have time to process every single altitude, heading, airspeed, etc bust. They would be swimming in paperwork and upper management would soon cry "uncle".
-In the meantime, be more cautious and remember that the controllers and their Union (NATCA) are opposed to this effort.

Often the first level supervisor will ask the controller, "When the pilot phones in, are you okay with me just talking it over with him and taking it no further?" The FAA's current hard line may put a damper on this practice. Again, this will blow over just like it has in the past.

During my career, when the FAA decided to get hard core about Pilot Deve's, I did not change my approach in the least. If a loss of separation occurs, an explanation is required and no one can prevent it. For everything else, I had a defense in place.

Manager: "Bruce, we happened to pull a tape to listen to you working traffic the other day. The darndest thing happened; a pilot busted his altitude assignment by 500 feet. All you did was double check his altitude, get him back down to his assigned altitude, and hand him off to the next sector."

Me: "Oh yeah, I think I remember that day."

Manager: "That was a pilot deviation. You should have reported it."

Me: "Oh gee, I thought we only had to report deviations if separation was lost, no?"

Manager: "Negative. All deviations must be reported."

Me: "I see. Well, consider me updated on the policy."

As usual, the FAA has implemented a policy without thinking through the ramifications. Pilots will begin double and triple checking clearances. This will make controllers busier. This will reduce safety and the number of planes a controller can effectively work. Delays will increase. The ATA will scream. The FAA will dial-down its pilot deviation policy.

Under the imposed work rules, the FAA has done all it can to suck the satisfaction and joy out of the ATC profession. As soon as they went into effect, I started making retirement plans. I retired within 2 months of becoming eligible.

Jan 1979 - Feb 2008 Air Traffic Controller (3.5 years USAF, 25 years FAA)
Feb 2008 - Present Airline Pilot

Originally Posted by SomedayRJ

They don't let controllers get immunity from ASRS submissions anymore? Great! Lovely! I see an ATC shortage on the horizon.

Originally Posted by Phuz

I read somewhere around here they are hiring out of high school now, which means no shortage of emo-kids on the radio.

Originally Posted by JetPipeOverht

I wish my grass was emo so it would cut itself...