NTSB: Mesa CRJ700 narrowly avoids Cessna single on Allentown runway
 

NTSB: United CRJ700 narrowly avoids Cessna single on Allentown runway

The US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) is investigating a near-miss between a departing United Express CRJ700 operated by Mesa Airlines and a taxiing single-engine Cessna 172 on Runway 6 at the Lehigh Valley International Airport in Allentown, Pennsylvania in favourable weather on 19 September.
According to investigators, the Chicago-bound CRJ with 60 onboard, operating as Mesa Airlines flight 7138, had reached a speed of approximately 120kt at 1945 Friday when pilots saw the four-seat Cessna on the runway ahead and swerved to avoid a collision, missing the aircraft by an estimated 10ft. No injuries were reported. The Cessna had landed earlier but missed its runway turnoff.
NTSB says the same air traffic controller who asked the Cessna to turn off on taxiway A4 after it landed, then cleared the CRJ, already holding for departure at the end of the same runway, to takeoff.
The Mesa crew told investigators they heard the Cessna pilot say he had missed the taxiway and ask for a turnoff farther down the runway.
United says it is "working with our flying partner and the authorities in investigating the matter".

Mesa bashing begins in 5 - 4 - 3 - 2 - 1

Does that runway have a big hump in the middle? Why would you start your takeoff roll with an aircraft on the runway? Was it at night? Were they unable to see that far down the runway or were they not paying attention?

I bet there will be a lot of second guessing of the Mesa crew on this thread. Would any other airline receive the same amount of second guessing, I bet not.

Seems like people like hitting on Mesa regardless of the validity of the argument.

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what's the record for consecutive questions asked? :confused:

I don't work for MESA but this doesn't sound like MESA's fault, if anything the crew should get a pat on the back for being able to turn away from the 172 at 120knots on the ground and not roll the plane.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/news...storylist=penn

To all you monday morning quarterbacks...thank god nobody was hurt!

------------------6 :D

Well done to the crew. This situation is a threat to us all.

I agree totally! The crew should be congratulated.

"It was very fortunate that they were as prepared for this incident as they ended up being," said Larry Krautter, the airport's deputy executive director. "Their reaction was extraordinary. The airmanship involved was absolutely extraordinary. They are to be congratulated for how well they handled it."

Almost half of the ATC guys they have at that airport are trainees! Thats scary.

I smell an ALPA Air Safety Award...

I'm not Mesa bashing at all (although I don't like Mesa anymore than the next guy). I'm just trying to figure out how they could miss an aircraft on their runway in broad daylight and good visibility? The aircraft couldn't have been more than 4 or 5 thousand feet down the runway. If it was at night, then it makes total sense how they couldn't see the other aircraft. It's kinda like having a green light to cross an intersection. You may be right and legal to cross with the green, but you still have to drive defensively. Just because you have a takeoff clearance doesn't mean it's safe to takeoff. It just seems weird that the crew couldn't see the other aircraft prior to starting their takeoff roll. Kudos to the crew for getting out of the situation, but how did they get into it to begin with? Asking questions is how we all become better pilots.

***Edit*** Looks like it was dusk. The article says the time was 1945. I wonder if the Cessna even had his nav and strobe lights on.

1945 local is not dusk, not even close. But go MESA!! It's good to see a a low time f/o and captain that aren't getting paid squat and have to put up with the BS of Mesa can still get out of harms way. BUT on the other hand they sure put themselves and 60 passengers in that situation. Everyone knows it never ATC's fault, it's "Pilot Error"


I know an RJ doesn't sit up much higher than a Chickenhawk, but does that hinder you from seeing down the whole runway? I understand, 7600ft is a long way!!

Normally, I'd make a crack about the crews distracted by hair gel..

However, the local controller couldn't spot the tiny aircraft either at night.

Did the cessna have operable lights or strobes??

I agree with Cyclepilot. This wouldn't have happened if these guys had used a little common sense. They both heard the 172 tell the controller they missed thier exit(according to the report)........ .....and they continued the roll....(sigh)

Everyone makes mistakes from time to time, but this one is pushing it. I don't see any reason to give them a "good job"

You're right, the sun set at 1856 local in my home town.

Dusk is more like 1830 there...

Dusk
Same as Civil Dusk; the time at which the sun is 6 degrees below the horizon in the evening. At this time objects are distinguishable but there is no longer enough light to perform any outdoor activities.

U. S. Naval Observatory
Astronomical Applications Dept.
Civil Twilight for 2008
ALLENTOWN, PENNSYLVANIA
Location: W075 29, N40 36
September 19 1831 local
September 20 1829 local
September 21 1827 local
September 22 1826 local

I completely agree here. I think that they did a heck of a job avoiding the 172, however, it sounds from their own admission that they probably should not have been in that situation anyway. Good job maneuvering, but poor situational awareness leading up to it. We as professional flight crews need to be very aware of our surroundings and not just follow every ATC instruction blindly.

Quote from WMUPilot - 1945 local is not dusk, not even close. But go MESA!!




Uhmmmm, really. Isn't dusk AFTER sunset? You know the 6 degrees below the horizon thing (if I can remember from CFI-ing 15 years ago). If sunset was around 1900 then it would get dark around 1930 right around the time of this incident...well plus 15 minutes, heck that's on-time at Mesa.:)

The cessna had no strobes. The tower was operating, so there was no need for the cessna to report clear. The "we missed our exit" transmission was heard at 120+ kts.

F/O saw the tail nav light on the cessna, followed by the illumination of the entire aircraft in the CRJ's landing lights. The abort was initiated at 140kts, and the CRJ literally passed the cessna on the rwy. The aircraft never left the rwy surface.

Sounds like a job well done to me.

It is?






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screw the tecnically "dusk" and "farmers almanac" stuff. All I know is that when I was pushing back at 1945 last week, and the week before, it was DARK outside. The sun was on it's way below the horizon at 1850 when I was in the parking lot. And I'm farther south than PA.

Again I say "ALPA, you have your 2008 AIR Safety award candidate(s)"..

I agree! Sounds like they did a good job. A dark (no strobes) small aircraft at night is incredibly hard to see some 4 or 5 thousand feet down a runway. This same thing happened to a TWA crew back in '94 in STL. A twin engine Cessna was position and hold on the wrong runway and the MD-80's wing sheared the top of the twin off, but they managed to avoid a worse collision. Of course, the pilots in the twin were killed. Scary stuff, but looks like the last minute reaction of the Mesa pilots "saved the day" this time.

Just some info..I dont know how far they have come since this article.

The FAA is making an excellent effort to finalize a cockpit moving-map display that shows where an aircraft is on the ground. Similar technology exists to help pilots see where they are in relation to other aircraft up to 1,000 feet AGL. ALPA strongly urges continuation of these efforts throughout the United States and Canada.

Meet international standards for runway safety areas.
Dozens of U.S. and Canadian airports, many of which serve large metropolitan areas, do not meet U.S. or international standards. According to the FAA, 45 percent, or 460, of the 1,024 certificated airport runways in the United States must be improved with regard to runway safety areas.

Three solutions exist to bring these airports up to compliance. First, they can extend the length of the runways to create runway safety areas, remove obstacles, or fill in ravines and culverts. Second, airports can reduce the usable length of the existing runway to provide runway safety areas. Third, if the physical space does not exist to create the recommended runway safety area, the airport can install an Engineered Materials Arresting System (EMAS), which uses concrete “foam” to bring an airplane to a quick, safe, and controlled stop.

To make these improvements a reality, airport authorities must make adequate funding available to airport operators.


Make Runways Safer than Ever

I just reread the NTSB report.
1. Strobes are not required, I do see your point though.
2. Correct that they don't need to report "Clear"
3. The take off was aborted at 120kts. Not "transmission was heard at 120 kts. That is a big difference.

I have no desire to bash Mesa or anyone that works for them. They just made a mistake (so did the tower IMO) A momentary lapse in situational awareness. Everyone lived...good job... Next time pay attention

Fantastic! I'm glad you're able to draw the conclusion that they made a mistake based on a prelim NTSB report. Tomorrow at 1945 look outside. I'll give you a hint, it's dark! :rolleyes:

So.....

"Uhh Tower, uhhhhhh it's dark so ummmm, could you except complete and total responsibility for our flight please? By the way stand by please, I need to add some gel to my hair, it's not spikey enough":cool:

Spikey hair joke, how fresh of you. All I'm saying is let's postpone judgement until we learn more about what happened.

I'm completely dumbfounded that anyone would second-guess the crew on this. The crew would not have initiated the take-off roll knowing that a cessna up ahead had missed its turn-off. I think it became clear during the roll that the cessna was possibly still on the runway, the crew took the right action and aborted the takeoff and narrowly avoided the cessna. It was completely dark out...who cares about the definition of dusk. It was 1945 in Allentown, PA...this time of year at that latitude, it's gonna be totally dark out.

They saved themselves, their pax and crew, and those in the Cessna by making a good decision. They were cleared for take-off, during the roll the cessna indicated they missed the turn-off, they took prompt corrective action based on what they were hearing at the time, and saved the day by aborting the takeoff and probably subjecting the CRJ to some high-speed cornering at the same time. Glad it turned out the way it did.

Who do you think you are?

It was dark outside. I want to see you pick out a cessna with no strobes that is nearly a mile from you from behind at night. I have had to look twice for traffic at an uncontrolled field during the day.

Nice attempt at the low blow about spiked hair. Perhaps you are confusing one of our guys with the DEN Skywest rod with bleached tips. He's a captain. People made fun of guys with bleached tips when I was in high school 10 years ago.

Easy to talk **** from the sidelines, isn't it?

You obviously think these guys show a lack of judgement by reading a prelim report. I think your post shows a lack of judgement on making a conclusion about an incident still under investigation. I sure hope that no-one ever has a chance to second guess something you do before the final report comes out, and you end up having to defend hearsay and conjecture because that's all people will remember. By the time the final report on this comes out this thread will be long gone and you'll have contributed to many "remembering" that the MESA crew were a bunch of low time fools who made a poor decision but managed to avoid a collision.

By the way..... it's "accept" not "except".

Agreed. This reminds me of that UAL guppy crew departing 27L at ORD that avoided the 747 landing 14R.

Excellent job crew!

Here's a bigger question: why was there absolutely no management on the shift? Only controllers, and the two in the tower apparently included one with 1 1/2 years experience and another that just checked out in the tower 1-3 months ago. Pretty low experience to be leaving them alone.

OK jr I have had enough. Your lack of experience and grammar make you look like a fool.:eek: nuff said

PS how's my hair maybe a little more gel.

Zach,

Whe you are a 121 pilot you can speak of the dangers of weekend warriors flying around without any communication or Mode C.

'till then, well you know.

Hey...lets not bash Mesa guys. It's much more fun to bash Cessna! Made in China POS's! One of two Skycatchers (stupid name) bit the dust last week.

The runway is also crowned. Very difficult to see up and over the ridge.

For what it's worth, you can hear the ATC audio here:

http://forums.aopa.org/attachment.ph...8&d=1222333162

somehow, any link trying to take me to AOPA forums throws me back to their main page.. =/