Regionals...shady?
 

hey I'm sorta new to the airlineforum. I want to become an airline pilot someday and know where I need to begin in terms of schooling, ratings, instructing for a while and all of that....but, I have some additional questions before I decide to sink my wallet into this profession.
(1) On an average basis, how long does it take a FO to upgrade to a captains chair at a regional? I've heard a lot of instructors say that is only takes a couple of years, but I've read on some other forums that it can take up to five years....any truth to that?
(2) is it true that if you should happen to leave an airline or even become furloughed, that you have to completely start over with another airline in terms of pay? what about if you already typed in one aircraft and you get hired by another airline flying the same aircraft....do they still start you over at first year pay? Even if you have years of experience already built up?
(3) Furlough to my understanding is basically a temporary lay off, in which you basically are still employed by the airline you just don't get paid and you don't fly....correct? So...on an average basis, how long would you guess an pilot would be on furlough at a regional? I would assume it depends on the airlines revenue as well as economic factors, but is it very often that you can expect to be furloughed for more than a year?
(4) currently, I don't have a degree. I am a software engineer and have been in the business for over 7 years. Is that going to someday limit my exposure to airlines that will actually hire me? Say Southwest or Delta? I know that many of the majors and legacys look for degrees, but are they willing to look at overall work experience instead of rather or not you have a piece of paper from a university?
(5) Reserve time I interpret is the amount of hours the airline pays you for each month regardless of how much you fly? And can someone please help me understand what is the difference between being on reserve, verses a line holder, and whatever other "holder" there is in between? That's all over my head and I can't find a forum that explains it in detail.

Any airline pilots out there....I'd appreciate your tips and answers.

The search feature will solve all there brother...

(1) It's not possible to predict how long it will take to upgrade to captain anywhere. Always keep that in mind--it doesn't matter if anyone tells you it's a sure thing to upgrade in a year. Some regionals were upgrading in 1-3 years, but they aren't now. Amer Eagle's most recent upgrades took 8 years. I doubt if the future will see any 1-2 year upgrades anywhere for a while. The biggest factor in shortening upgrade time is whether an airline is growing and thus needing more pilots. Regional airlines boomed in the 90's and into the 2000's because more flying was being delegated by the majors. That's not really true anymore, so places like Skywest are losing flying instead of gaining it, which means the seniority list is pretty stagnant. Also, many regionals require you to have a certain amount of hours before you can be a captain, so even if the list is moving fast, you may need to wait until you have a few thousand hours anyway. The picture is not looking rosy right now, and personally I doubt it will get much better any time in the next few years, especially with the new age 65 rule.

(2)If you change airlines or get hired by a major, you absolutely are straight to the bottom, doesn't matter if you're 57 with 90k hours or 22 with 300, you're gonna be the whipping boy and make crap money again.

(3)Impossible to say how long a furlough could last.

(4)Regionals don't care, major airlines do. Are there major airline pilots out there with no degree? Sure, there's a decent amount. But there definitely is no shortage of people who want to be pilots, and you're competing with all of them. This is one reason, among multiple, that it's very important to ask yourself this question before you decide to become an airline pilot: "Could I be happy as a career regional pilot, or do I want to fly 747's?"

(5)Being on reserve means you have a schedule of days where you are on call and days off. Holding a line means you have a schedule of trips and days off. There is a minimum guarantee of paid hours for each. With a line, you know when you're flying and when you're done.

I hope this information helps you out and clears up some of your questions. Good luck on your flying career... it is a tough and long road... one I have been driving down for the past 6 years since I was 17 flying cessnas. It certainly has been hard getting to this point... all to see it fall apart in front of me, but hopefully things will turn around in this industry sometime soon. Good luck and fly safe!

Good luck.

Holy Hell.....I should stick to my original plan and be a part-time mime. So then here's another set of questions, if the majors mimimums are in the low thousands...what is the incentive for a FO at a regional to stay there verses just going to a major and start working? Ex: say you're FO at eagle, and you've been there for five years and have 5K TT under your belt, why wouldn't you just go on to work for American instead of continuing to work at a regional making chicken scratch for pay?
And so I guess my question about how long is a pilot typically on reserve has already been answered huh? There's no way to know as it depends on what the general move of pilots are like at the time that you get out of training and start flying?
What about commuting pilots? Is it free to travel when even when you're off duty? Do airline pilots gets to fly for free with other airlines?

thanks
 

this is a nice thread

Most majors require in the neighborhood of 1000-2000 hours of PIC time in a jet, AKA Captain time to get hired. Not competitive; required. Now, there are some that don't require this, but most do.

You can travel for either free or a greatly reduced fee (depending on where you work, generally in the $50 to $100 a year range, unlimited flights) on your own airline and any agreements you have with other carriers, even if you're off duty. These benefits generally extend to immediate family members and in some cases, parents, however, they usually have to pay a nominal fee per flight, usually in the $25-$50 per flight range. As the actual pilot, if you're with a carrier that has reciprocal jumpseat agreements and you're in CASS, you can travel with any airline you have agreements with (most airlines, in otherwords) for free, either in the cockpit or in the cabin, depending on which is available.

One small thing about reserve: your monthly guarantee is a MINIMUM guarantee. If you work five hours over your guarantee, you get paid for your guarantee plus the extra five hours. Also, no matter where you are, you get a "per diem" that gives you anywhere from $1-$3 per hour that you're away from base. So you leave today at noon and get back tomorrow at noon, you'll get 24 hours of your per diem pay.

It's a lot more complicated than 'just go to work for American.' Most majors require PIC time. The ones that don't require it outright will take the guys with PIC time ahead of those without it. And major airlines go years without hiring anybody at all. But equally important is, if you've been with a regional for 5 years, you've got some stability in your life, you're probably getting older and maybe have a family or a serious girlfriend, and you maybe don't want to sacrifice more years of your life to long-term training, reserve, commuting, and the worst schedules. What if you switch to a major airline and then get furloughed? Or what if you jump over to ATA and they go bankrupt?

As a pilot, you get free travel domestically on pretty much every airline there is with the CASS program. This allows you to live outside of your base and commute, and you can also get around when you're off-duty, which is great. Commuting is not a whole lot of fun, though. It's stressful, takes up a lot of time, and you will spend nights sleeping in the crew lounge because you can't afford to get a hotel all the time. I would strongly, strongly recommend that you live in base if you ever decide to be an airline pilot. Particularly on reserve.

So widebodyjunkie, what do you think… still want in ;)?

Yea let me be the first to say DONT DO IT! Go anywhere, do anything, I dont care, just dont become an airline pilot. Like working 16 hour days and get paid for 3? Like staying in hotels 5 days out of the week? Like getting 4 hours of sleep? If you answer no to any of these, DONT DO IT!

PS the debt to income ratio is horrible, at least thats what my loan companies say.

There was a post about not commuting to work. It's two fold. I've done both, lived in base and commuting (currently commuting), and i will say that commuting is much more stressful than living in base. On the other hand, i've had several buddies, some who moved to St. Louis to be based at "home" and others who moved to the domicile that they're company placed them in. Because regional airlines do things at the discression of the major they're working for, bases can open or close very quickly, leaving you, the employee with a 1 year lease in some undesirable location. Same happens for you if you get furloughed, one buddy was lucky, and some of his co-workers picked up the slack on his lease after his furlough, now, they're getting furloughed also, and will have an apt. in a city that they didn't have much interest in being in. So, like i said, it's a two edged sword. Not sure about most, but my crappy regional will also not compensate you much (if any) for making a move across country for the company, over here, you'll have to fight to get the days off to actually do the move itself.

Go talk to Kit Darby, head to Embry Riddle and in a few months youll be up there Captaining a big widebody and taking in the great view from your office in the sky!!........o sh%t I was sleep typing!!

So basically I need to decide on rather or not I'm okay with living off crappy pay, possible furlough's, long exhausting schedules for the majority of my airline career? i'm not soo sure I can do that....how the hell does anyone live on 30K a year? It can be done i'm sure, but you'd have to sacrafice a lot...and for what! To be employed by an airline, making peanuts for pay, and praying every single day that you still have a job when you go to work? What posseses people to go into this profession with this much of a stagnant outlook?

What about airline pilots that transition into something else? Say....go to work at a regional for a year or two to build up the turbine time, would you have much luck being able to get on at a corporate job that way? I'm going to probably guess no, because so many pilots today are trying to get out of the airlines and into the corporate job so......competition baby!!

Good Question! Pre-9/11 there appeared to be excellent prospects for moving on to a major after 4 years (or less) with a regional. Major airline CA pay approached or exceeded $300K at the top end, and work rules and QOL were better back then. I personally could not have made the same justification to switch careers today that I did back then.


Right now, the market might be kind of tight. A corporate wanna-be has two options...

1) Network his way up through GA. This is time-consuming, and it can be hard to get the turbine PIC needed for the best jobs. There is often no seniority system...if you are a co-pilot and your captain quits, odds are they will hire another captain off the street instead of promoting you if you don't have the PIC they want. Often insurance dictates the experience requirements, so the owner's hands are tied.

2) Go regional first and get a few 1000 hours of turbine time, and hopefully 1000 turbine PIC. The advantage here is you have the underlaying base experience for insurance purposes. The downside is that many corporate operators are leary of airline pilots...we basically show up, walk on the airplane, pre-flight, and go. The corporate pilot has many more duties, including flight-planing, cleaning, and customer interaction. It's a different mind-set, and some pilots with the "Airline Stink" have trouble adapting. But if you wanted to do it you could, but you would have to work to break into corporate at the entry level. Be aware that you definately need to be sociable and people-oriented, more so than airlines.


Also corporate is a mixed bag...many operators are shady or downright dangerous, and working conditions and schedules are often poor. The best corporate jobs have pay and QOL approaching the the best (most senior) airline jobs.

A couple college friends are on the corporate track right now. One went to airline training, didn't like it, and came back home. He then came back home, found a job flight instructing and flying some charter work. The charter work lead to a job flying in a bank's corporate flight department, and he was just recently typed on their jet. Another couple guys found different flight instruction type jobs that in addition would have them fly right seat on the flight schools king air. The company does charter work in the king air, and has a couple of citations as well for charters and occasional life flight type work. Idea is to work your way from flight instructor, to right seat of the prop, left seat of the prop (get that turbine pic), then right seat on the jet, then PIC on the jet.

Finding these jobs is often the problem, sometimes you're competing with tons of guys, but often not. The companies will often be able to fill the jobs without even putting an ad in the paper, just from word of mouth of "my buddy flies, i bet he'd be interested." and so on. Right place right time seems to really fit.

Some corporate jobs also require you to be married to your cell phone. Yes, they can provide you with good pay, great locations, and the opportunity to bring your golf clubs along and play 18 while your management is in a business meeting. But, you've gotta be willing to live the "playboy" lifestyle for some time, expecting to make plans with your friends/family can be very difficult, if they can call you up the night before, or even day of and expect you to show up. A different friend of mine was doing that for quite some time. Said he hadn't stayed in a hotel in a month or so. Spends most of his time doing trips out and back. But, has no scheduled days off a month. I myself couldn't live with only know i had a day off the day after it occurred.

There have been a lot of regional and probably even some major guys going over to the fractionals. In a nutshell, most pay better than regionals, some much much better. The top tier one right now starts you off at a regional Captain wage in the mid to upper 60's. You'd expect a 7 day on and 7 day off schedule, and a much nicer quality of life. Down this avenue though, you will be dealing with tons of direct competition from other airline pilots, as many would LOVE to land this job.

Sadly enough I still think I want in. I'm an optomist in this situation, and hope that fuel prices will stabilze a little more and the economy will become much more stable, therefore allowing the airlines to eventually continue to operate and start to generate revenue and movement of pilots....but who's to say it will happen or not. no way of knowing! In my case, I'm thinking of trying to get on with a good regional. Based on the research I've done, I determined that Skywest, Eagle, ASA, Comair, and Jetlink are some of the best. But I could be way off....anybody wanna weigh in? What airlines would you say are "good" in terms of QOL, least amount of furloughs, and pay?

The problem with judging regionals is that they are all subcontractors, and can (and usually will be) underbid by another regional.

What is true today in regional-land, may not be the case in two years.

SKW has a good track record at dodging bullets.

Jetlink has dodged a few, but not all.

ASA is owned by SKW now.

COMAIR and Eagle are both owned by their majors and are technically not subcontractors...however both are on the auction block, so it's not safe to assume that they will retain their protected status forever. When they get kicked out of the fold, they will eventually have to re-bid for their own jobs (this happened to jetlink).

Horizon is good in many respects, but they are in a major downsizing now.

Air Wisconsin is decent, but not sure what their growth plans or opportnuties are right now.

I'd probably avoid all the other jet regionals.

Are you going to go way into debt to do this?

Comair used to be a good place to be until the bankruptcy last year that Delta dragged us into. Ever since then it has been one down hill spiral after another. Daily contract violations, started using a messed up scheduling program, empty promises, vacancy bids being canceled, furloughs announced, getting Freedom's 900's and then retracting that statement, more furloughs... the last 6 months have been one of the worst emotional roller coasters I have ever ridden... all to end inevitably in furlough. To make matters worse, they just decided yesterday to arbitrarily take our payroll deduction account balance out of our check in full. Some people didnt even get a check yesterday and those of us that did got maybe $100-300... for one check! No notice either... It really amazes me how mistreated and disrespected we are from management. Dont come to Comair, this place is NOT what it used to be.

Getting with a "good" regional is a pretty funny statement. I guess a lot also comes down to what your goals are. Realize that many of the regionals you stated have higher minimums and are much more competitive to get on with if and when they actually start hiring for some of them. Do you really want to instruct for possibly an extra 2 or 3 years to get on with a "good" regional or would you rather get hired with a "bad" regional, prove you can pass training, get year under your belt, and then make a decision to stay put or try for a "good" regional. Also, the "good" and "bad" regionals may look very different by the time you are actually ready to start heading into the industry so be flexible. I would say, with an exception of a few airlines, any airline with a base that you can hold and want to live in would be a good one. QOL is going to be better living in base no matter what airline you work for. Battling for seats on full airplanes is no fun and no matter what you think, there is people senior and with higher priority commuting from any city you may try to commute from. I relocated to DTW after commuting for a month and a half and it is way better to live in base. DTW, even the most dangerous city in the country which what the USA Today rank it as a week before I moved, has good, safe, and fun places to live. In all, pick a regional based on what you want, not what other people want. Don't chase pay because its not worth it. Lastly, don't narrow down your choices too much because you need to get hired first.

I know this is a Regional board so I hope I don't get whipped too bad with my comment. :D

All I want to say on this matter is to be aware of many paths other than the regional route. I'm not degrading this path by any means, but a lot of people get tunnel vision and become fixated on this path as the only path. Just my humble observation.

I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I hired on with a major and never flew for a regional airline or any 121 carrier for that matter. And all of my flight time is civilian.

Other avenues to investigate would be corporate and cargo.

oh yeah....probably about 50K i'm guessing by the time you factor in private, commercial, instrument, and then your ratings and CFI, CFII, and ME, MEI. I would be willing to pay out of pocket, but it would take me close to five years or more to do that.

well let's say I decided to go Cargo, is it possible to get a job with a cargo airline out of instructing? I'm sure you could with the smaller ones such as Ameriflight, but aren't some of those a little shady as well in terms of pay, job security, and benefits? Plus, I would assume the traveling with them would be even worse because as a rookie, you'd be stuck flying mostly at night for quite a while if not for years. chip in anyone?

This is a great thread and I wish I knew more of the facts before I sunk my savings and sold my soul to get through flight school. If I knew then what I know now and predicted 9/11 would I have still done it? Yes, it was my dream and no regrets. However, always, always, always have a back up outside of aviation. And I don't mean have a degree in communications or philosophy. Something solid that will make you marketable during tough times. I met a guy at Mesa that is an RN, this guy will never be unemployed. And yes, you can get by without a degree but why try to limit yourself. Suck it up and get a degree in something that will help you if the airline industry crumbles. Which is does almost like a clock every 7 years.

Also, don't rush through flight school in hopes of grabbing a great job and paying the debt off later. Try to go slow and pay as much as you can then. Unless you have a rich dad or won the powerball it is almost impossible to get through training without debt but no need to go from zero to CFI in 3 months like some of these accelerated programs claim. Flying once a week may actually be more benificial to retain in the long run.

Make a plan now and even have your eye on which regional you want. It will help you make decisions about which is the best route for you to take. Of course you can change your mind and adjust when you get farther along but there are different tactics on how to get to your preferential airline.

First of all, if you are trying to avoid instructing, it may not be the job for you. Very few make it without instructing. Again, depends on your budget but the cheaper route pretty much requires you to instruct for at least a year. I am not even going to cram down your throat how much you are going to enjoy instructing because most don't but will never admit it.

Cargo is a great job but also not a way to avoid instructing. Most cargo operators are 135 and single pilot so the minimums are much higher than the regionals. Others are much more dodgier operations than all the bad in the regionals combined.

Great questions but know that there are few ways around instructing and you will 'doing your time' before you get to sit in the right seat of a 737. Coorporate is also an option but again, you have to have some experience before someone is going to let you jump from a Seminole to a multi million dollar aircraft.

Thanks for the input. I have a plan in place, i'm going to wait about another year before I start seriously taking lessons. I plan to pace myself to get through the training in about 1 year - 1 1/2 years.

Hopefully moving slower will allow me to retain more of what I learn. At that point, I'd like to get into instructing, do that for a year or two and build up some time, then i'd like to go into the regionals.

After the Thread that I have opened up, it seems that the veil of mystery is beginning to unfold in regard to the airline world. I'm not soo certain that commercial flying is the best way to go. Currently I'm single and have no kids....so life is easy in that regard, but I can't honestly say I want to go into my 30's with an unstable job outlook, and Sh*ty pay.

Your plan sounds good. Don't rush, enjoy it. Learning to fly is sometimes hard but should always fun. I loved my training. Actually, I do think you retain more by not rushing it.

Not all regionals are crap money. I know several regional captains that make $90,000 a year and feel they can't leave because it is a big paycut. It took them about 7 years to get there but all of the majors are starting off at half that, or less. It will take another 3-5 to get back to that range.

There are good jobs out there but you have to be patient. I think all pilots prefer you turn down the bad ones in order to help bring up the standard.

It is more difficult when you are married but it is workable. Especially if you can be based somewhere you want to live with the family. Being on reserve and sitting in your living room watching TV can be great.

It is an unstable industry but have a back up and a good savings. There is no stratedgy to avoid the downturn, it is unavoidable. It is luck where you are on the seniority list when it happens that will determine if you have a job or not. I know many that were fearful they would be furloughed but instead found another job and volunteered to leave. They saw it as a nice change and saved someone else from being forced out. If your back up is solid, you can be that person that leaves and may even make more money while you are gone.

no i'm not trying to get around instructing...I think my verbage was wrong. What I was asking is can you go to a cargo airline and start working after instructing for a while or are the regionals your best bet?

And kinda off the wall question, are perdiem's taxed?

I have to say it...Number one, the search function is crap -have you even used it? And number two, congrats on being "that guy!"

So when airlines furlough pilots, is it usually the rookies that get the boot? If you can pass the first two years within a regional, I wonder if you're in the clear provided that the whole airline doesn't tank.

It's not "usually", it's pretty much "always" the junior guys...airlines use a formal seniority system based on date of hire.

The conventional rule of thumb is that being above the bottom 20% is pretty safe, assuming as you mentioned that the whole airline doesn't shut down.

As to how long that takes, it totally depends on growth and attrition...two years is probably a good average at a regional.

But there are no guarantees.

Depends who you work for. Pay generally is higher on the cargo side. Speaking only for myself, I was making $45k a year as a captain - and that was only 3 years after I left instructing. As far as job security and benefits, that is going to depend on who you work for. If your goal is to build time, I wouldn't worry about benefits. Concentrate on getting your time and moving on.

Depends who you fly for. Night flying isn't for everyone. Then again, neither is getting a wake-up call at 03:30 for your 05:00 show.

So in regards to perdiem's...are they taxed? How does the payment usually work.....does the airline cut you a check at the end of the month after all of your perdiem's hours you worked for that month are added up? In addition, do airlines typically pay for your food while you're on the road, or is that what the perdiem is to be used for??

Go Palin!! :)

Your "GO Palin" remark almost makes me not feel like replying...but, politics are politics, and typically annoying...so i won't let bygones be bygones.

There are two types of perdiem, Taxable and Non-Taxable. It's odd, say you're doing day trips, the perdiem is taxed,however, if you've left for a 3 day trip, you perdiem isn't taxed.It's all based on where you end up that night, if you end up somewhere that's not your domicile, then you don't pay taxes on it. How it's paid out depends on the company policies, here, we get two checks a month (direct deposited) the 1st is made up of half guarantee. Which equates to 37.5 Hrs for block holders. At first year pay of 22.00/hr you're looking at $825 before taxes :eek: . You're second check is made up of the rest of your credit for the month,so, say you credited 90 hrs, the second check will be 90-37.5 = 52.5 Hrs x 22.00 = $1155.00, They then include your perdiem on your check (on the second check) so, say 300hrs away from base which you're getting paid 1.5 for, so, $450 in perdiem. They're then nice enough to take your insurance, uniform payments, and union dues out this check. Not gonna get rich on year one pay, but that's how it breaks down.

As far as getting on with cargo operators after getting your CFI/MEI. Yes, it can be done. Don't expect fedex or UPS, but small cargo outfits are a definite possibility. Some (many) will have questionable maintenance and practices though, but, it does give you very practical experience in real world flying, in Instrument weather. You'll earn your stripes, and most likely be a better pilot for it...or you'll be dead. One or the other.

If you're going to tollerate this job/lifestyle, you have to love to fly. Not just "I think thats what I want to do." But seriously LOVE IT.

Going the cargo part 135 (chrater) route is great experience because it's single pilot, IFR, often multi-engine. However, when applying to majors, they may not like it as much because you have no "Crew" experience, say some gained at a regional.

I'm not sure about the "taxed, non-taxed" perdiem, maybe thats a difference between airlines. All perdiem is taxed. You earn perdiem all the time that you are on duty and away from your base.

Again, some companies may differ, lets say that your monthly gauantee is 75hrs. Your first pay check will be a protion of that (ie; 40 hrs x your wage). The second will be the rest of your gaurantee (35 hrs) plus your perdiem and any time flown over your gaurauntee.

Airlines dont pay for your food, thats all you. Sometimes if you dont have to leave to early in the morning you can catch the hotel breakfast (not likely though).

The above posts are all good.

Per diem at the airlines is as mentioned above: If your spending the night away from home it's tax free, and if it's just a day trip then it's taxed.

As far as getting furloughed... I guess two years would have been a good ballpark number. I was at ExpressJet (Jetlink) for 16 months and just got furloughed. If I had gotten on 8 months earlier, I wouldn't have been, so your 2 year formula in this situation would have worked.

Also, when doing your budgeting and financial plan for your airline career, let me be the first to say that you will be innacurate with your plan. When I got hired at Express we were hiring 80/mo, people were sitting on reserve for a month, and were being upgraded in 2 years. About two months after I got hired that came to a screeching halt. I didnt break guarentee once my whole time at Express, and I spent the entire 16 months on reserve.

Such is life, and while it's unfortunate for me, my point is that you can't plan very well for what it will be like when your hired there... so have backup plans.

I had also wanted to go to a "good" regional, so I held out for ExpressJet or SKYW (due to base locations). I canceled my Skywest interview and went to Express... now in hind-sight if I had gone to SKYW, I would still be employed and would probably be closing in on an upgrade in the Brazilia..

Also I had a lot of friends who didn't wait for a good regional and they went to Mesa... They're still employed and are also closing in on upgrade.

Making the right decision in this industry is... well... difficult. Do your reasearch, like you are, and make the best decision for you at the time.

Lastly, being gone for days at a time does wear on you. I imagine at a major it could be fun going to neat international locations, but they're is nothing glorious about overnighting in Beamont, Brownsville, Midland, etc etc. =) Ya make the most of it while your there, and have a few beers if time permits. Just make sure your ready for that... a lot can happen in 4 days to friends and family, especially if you have little ones running around.

And very briefly to your origional regional vs major thread... as mentioned people stay at the regional because they've become comfortable with their salary and quality of life. holding 16 days off a month and making 75k is good for some people. Other people want the "stability" of a major, or to fly bigger aircraft, or to go international. Other people are happy flying a king air to the same 5 airports their whole career. I know I'm giving the extremes here, but I'm just trying to widen your view of aviation.

As everyone says.. If I could get paid 100k / yr to fly a 172 and have job security, I probably would. =)

Enjoy the rollercoaster.

-Travis

Per diem is quite simple. You are payed a fixed amount of money per time away from base. Here is an example using easy, round numbers for simplicity.

Example: your employer pays you $1.00/hr round the clock for each hour you are away from base. This includes both your time on AND off duty. So if your time away from base is 48 hours, then your per diem is going to be $48.00 for that particular trip.

How is taxed? Typically it isn't. The government sets a limit on how much of an allowance can be made for per diem. Anything paid above and beyond this amount is taxed. However, I have yet to encounter earning more per diem than I'm allowed.

Example: Let's say the government allows you up to $10,000.00 in per diem for the year, (again, using a general, round number). Now, let's say your company pays you $8,000.00 in per diem for the year, because they are not obligated to pay you the maximum allowable - that is typically negotiated in contracts. There is a $2,000.00 difference between what you could have earned in per diem. That $2,000.00 difference may be deducted for income tax purposes.

I'm not sure how it works if it goes the other way though. I've never been paid more than the maximum allowed.

Hope this answers your question.

Moderator Input:

Folks, let's leave all the politics out of this. This thread is useful and informative, and I don't want to have to start deleting posts. Please edit out the political references.

Thanks!