For Colgan Pilots
 

Just wondering what everyone thinks about the union drive this year. I was a mere new hire when the drive took place last year and through the majority of it was up in CRW ... I'm not in Houston a year and a half later, and the feelings down in IAH are relatively mixed. I think from what I can tell slightly more people are favoring ALPA, but just about everyone I have talked to just says "we need SOMETHING". I completely agree, and am kind of on the fence as to which one I want.

I know both of them have pros and cons, and I know by a long shot that ALPA is a much bigger and theoretically more powerful union. Not to mention it's the same union Pineapple Express (sorry Pinnacle guys/gals, couldn't resist ;)) has, and if we do eventually end up merging (I have heard NOTHING that would lead to such an idea, just speculating), from what I have read it wouldn't matter which union we had anyway, we would end up with ALPA.

Any thoughts, comments, concerns, insults (be gentle), constructive criticism, etc. Just want to get an idea of what everyone thinks about both unions and which would be better.

no merger, it is not in managements, or the stockholders, best interest. You would have to give up something pretty big to get it.

good luck

Sure ALPA is fine, but unless your a mainline company forget about any real support from the "Big Office":cool: your just regional scooter trash like me

"give up something pretty big to get it." ***. Are you implying that Colgan Pilots want a merger with Pinnacle pilots. If we wanted to work there we would have applied there from the start. Yes, Pinnacle has just as many low time wonder pilots as CJC.

You are right, both have their pros and cons. Since you asked this question on a public forum, I think you'll hear both good and bad things about both unions. The guys that are pro-IBT always say they've heard nothing but bad things from ALPA carrier guys.... well I personally have heard nothing but bad things about IBT... People hear what they want to hear. The important thing is to consider the factors that will affect US, Colgan pilots.
You said you've heard NOTHING that would lead to such an idea as a merger, well there are many threads on this forum alone regarding the whole Pinnacle Airline/Pinnacle Corp alter ego issue.
If and when we do merge, we WILL be absorbed into Pinnacle's union (ALPA), because Colgan pilots make up less than 35% of the sum of the two groups combined. If we are Teamsters at that point, the merger process would be guided by Allegany-Mohawk as opposed to the ALPA merger policy if we were both ALPA. THAT's why it matters what union we get for now, even if ALPA is an eventuality. (among many other reasons, of course.) I would love to discuss this with you in person or on the phone, or I can email you a explanation of how this all works, if you really care about this (and you should).

and btw, here is another thread on ALPA v. IBT:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/un...-contrast.html

Not sure which of those two outcomes you favor more, but didn't ALPA merger policy govern the USAir AWA merger(aka the Nicolau award). I don't think that went to well, as a matter of fact i think its still going horribly!

it is a clusterF but ALPA does have a wealth of resources to help pilots. You bend metal or get violated you get a FREE lawyer and council, you get high blood pressure or some other medical issue you get to talk to a medical doctor who is completely confidential and is an expert on FAA aeromedical law... PRICELESS. I speak from experience on the medical issue. The dues are higher then teamsters but you really do get some excellent benefits and peace of mind. my 2 cents

That was between the two MEC's not ALPA national. US East wanted straight DOH which is not ALPA's merger policy.

It's a no-brainer. ALPA policy involves direct negotiations between the pilot without the possibility of management or some business agent speaking up for us if we were no union/IBT. Could I really trust Buddy or my Colgan Air Family to bargain on my behalf?

I know for a fact that under the ALPA policy, the PILOTS negotiate directly with each other. I really don't know who would be speaking up for me if we were IBT. Is it a "business agent," or some IBT union employee like this Ms. Ashley Mosher who sent that extremely deceiving email to the Colgan pilots? If there is a union employee involved, I don't even want to hear it - they have no interest divested in a merger, and I can't trust someone like that speaking on my behalf. Does IBT have a merger policy spelled out in their constituion, and does it directly involve the pilots? If anyone can point me to an official IBT document that states these policies, please do so!
Also, under Allegheny-Mohawk, if the pilot groups don't resolve the issue by themselves, it goes to directly to binding arbitration, which is comprised of one person. Under the ALPA merger policy, it goes to mediation first, then arbitration, which is made up of three neutral parties as opposed to ONE.

You're right, ALPA merger policy did govern US Air/AWA. But they couldn't come to an agreement on their own, so they chose to let it go to arbitration. If they were going to blame someone, they should blame their own MEC. ALPA had nothing to do with it except to provide a process. Obviously, US Air pilots got the short end of the stick. How can you not feel terrible for these senior pilots would lost everything through mutiple bankruptcies and then this merger. But by design, everyone loses in a merger. That's why it's called negotiation - it's GIVE AND TAKE. I think if they could've just resolved the list on their own, they could've been happier (or less mad) about the outcome. But you can't cry after you let it go to arbitration and the arbitrators come out with a decision you don't like.

People love to cite the US Air example, but it's actually pretty irrelevant. ALPA national doesn't even get involved until the seniority list is actually hammered out. If anything, it just goes to show you that 1. It would've been better to come to an agreement on their own rather than letting a third party do it. 2. ALPA doesn't "favor" certain groups. Many Colgan pilots are fearful that ALPA will favor Pinnacle since they are bigger and thus provide bigger chunk of change in dues. If this were the case, US Air pilots would've gotten a windfall out of their merger.

And speaking of Allegheny-Mohawk, do you know what happened in the seniority merger process between Chautauqua and Shuttle America even when both groups were Teamsters? Perfect example of why I won't trust IBT in the case of a merger.

No. what happened?