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Old 03-31-2008, 08:51 PM   #1
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Default Teamsters and ALPA -- Compare and Contrast

If given the choice of the Teamsters or ALPA, which would you choose and why? What do you see are the pros and cons of each?


Please, PLEASE! Let's try to stay constructive. Some of us have a decision to make in the next few months.

Thanks,
j
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Old 03-31-2008, 08:55 PM   #2
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Good luck in both your decision, and the likely outcome of this thread :-)
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Old 04-01-2008, 03:33 AM   #3
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Both ALPA and TEAMSTERS have identity issues for all concerned, these are entities that are only interested in DUES PAYMENTS and then taking care of matters, on their terms ........................... Just look at the pressing issues of the day ..................... SCHEDULING, BROKE AIRPLANES, VICIOUS MANAGEMENT, UNREALISTIC DEMANDS placed on flight crews every day.
Everybody talks a good talk, but the walk ain't there, my friends.
You can hold up your Picket Signs all day long, get folks fired up like the old Football Game days, talk, talk, talk ........................... but absent the course of the real deal, and that is WITHOLDING SERVICES TO GET WHAT YOU NEED, it will be a very long and tiring experience for all of us.
These UNION LEADERS, need a good dose of "kick in the ass" and throw them off their high perches, for NOT Championing the causes of the working people who have elected them. So, think all of this over and let your Union leaders know that you are NOT SATISIFIED, when the job calls for appropriate measures. Yea, there may be those out there that are "scared" of losing their jobs but you listen to this ................................... You will not get anywhere in this Life and especially in this environment, if you appear to be WEAK, TIMID and/or easily SWAYED ......................................... You all know the issues at hand, I don't need to expound on this any further ........................ Good Day.
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Old 04-01-2008, 10:02 AM   #4
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ALPA.

I want a union that was built for professional pilots, not truckers or other labor groups.

I want a union that is well versed in 121 scheduled operations, and which has the resources to protect my profession.

It should be a pretty damn simple decision.
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Old 04-02-2008, 02:27 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by surreal1221 View Post
ALPA.

I want a union that was built for professional pilots, not truckers or other labor groups.

I want a union that is well versed in 121 scheduled operations, and which has the resources to protect my profession.

It should be a pretty damn simple decision.
The people I have been associated with that have been ALPA would not support your statement. Most of the people who have lost millions of dollars worth of pensions (Delta, UA) or the one who lost their jobs and the company continued to operate (Emery). First ALPA is an association as it states in the title. Second professionals don't refuse to come to the table and offer help when help is needed (Some of the Delta pilots wanted to approach the company for temporary give backs when the Sh*t hit the fan after 9/11. DALPA state they can come and ask for help. Well management helped themselves to the pensions.) I have not figured out how ALPA at the regional level has helped, especially when most of the regionals are beholden to the major for their flying and ALPA majors give more total dollars to the pot than the regional guys. I think a few of the TWA guys might also disagree with ALPA also.
All in all neither is perfect you have to chose you poison, get involved and make the best of it. It will never be perfect.
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:05 PM   #6
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So are you disagreeing with my statement that ALPA is well versed in airline labor?

Are you suggesting that any other association would be able to have the professional security, negotiating power, and the overall money in the bank to back their services, etc that ALPA provides?

I mean, I've read everything you've written. I don't really care if people disagree with ALPA on a personal level.

On a professional, as a whole level, ALPA is the best there is. That is all.

The RLA is flawed in many areas, all of which play into the hands of our respective company's management. Also, bankruptcy laws are so weak right now it's amazing. No union can presently get beyond those two issues right now. Not ALPA, Not the Teamsters, USW, or any other labor association.

The only thing that will bring the ball back into the court of the employees, is an administration that is pro-labor. November is quickly approaching.
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Old 04-04-2008, 07:38 AM   #7
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If I don't feel the union or association is doing what it I feel is should do then how could I support it, much like the politicians I vote for. If I feel they don't represent me and what I believe then I don't vote for them. It has to be personal. This is what makes us professional is the personal integrity to uphold the standard and raise the bar or raise questions if I believe the bar has been lowered. Putting faith in politicians to correct the perceived problems with the RLA and bankruptcy law is wasted energy at the moment. I don't disagreeing that both of these issue deserve review. Most politicians don't want to waste the political capital on these issues, because they feel they need to spend that capital else where, ie finance reform, mortgage system overhaul, outsourcing of jobs, oil companies, and illegal immigration. I don't believe that the next President is going to be on "labors side" with the current state of the economy. They will be looking for ways to get business back in business and start the restoration process. I think the "recession" will be good for the airline industry as a whole. Many of the problems that could have been resolved after 9/11 have just been pushed back and are now coming to there end six or seven years after they should have. "A revolution every now and then is a good thing" it is going to be painful, but until airlines can their tickets prices to cover the cost of doing business and start making money, we as employees don't stand a chance at get much back it terms of QOL, wages, benefits and security.
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Old 07-04-2008, 06:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
ALPA is the best there is.
Yeah, if thats all that you have dealt with UPS and the IPA is a pretty
Sh!t Hot union.

Alot of it comes downs to pilot particiaption. I fly for a company represented by Teamsters and compared to QX (who has the same union) has got life much better. They are the highest payed regional in the world. Their new hire FO's make the same as CA's at my airline. Also their Sr. CA's make the same as most CA's at Alaska.

PILOT PARTICIPATIOPN IS KEY!
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Old 07-24-2008, 01:48 PM   #9
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Teamsters are useless. They have no clue how to run a union for pilots. In our local, we have secretaries making six figures
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
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The people I have been associated with that have been ALPA would not support your statement. Most of the people who have lost millions of dollars worth of pensions (Delta, UA) or the one who lost their jobs and the company continued to operate (Emery). First ALPA is an association as it states in the title. Second professionals don't refuse to come to the table and offer help when help is needed (Some of the Delta pilots wanted to approach the company for temporary give backs when the Sh*t hit the fan after 9/11. DALPA state they can come and ask for help. Well management helped themselves to the pensions.) I have not figured out how ALPA at the regional level has helped, especially when most of the regionals are beholden to the major for their flying and ALPA majors give more total dollars to the pot than the regional guys. I think a few of the TWA guys might also disagree with ALPA also.
All in all neither is perfect you have to chose you poison, get involved and make the best of it. It will never be perfect.
Well first of all, I'm not sure why pilots blame loss of pensions and that sort of disaster on their union. Yes, unions are there to protect us, but a union can't prevent an airline from going bankrupt, and neither can a union manipulate bankruptcy laws that enable airlines to engage in such practices like cutting pilot pensions. You should blame MANAGEMENT for that.

and two, I think we all agree that neither is perfect that that you have to choose your poison, just like you said. That's why the original poster asked the question, "ALPA or Teamsters"? and that's why, your response about pilots who lost their pensions not suppporting ALPA is totally irrelevant. Teamsters wouldn't have been able to do anything for them either.

Personally, I agree with Surreal. I want to be represented by a Pilot's union, not for a trucker's union. Sure, I will have to pay .4% more dues than I would for Teamsters, but to get the legal expertise and medical resources that is SECOND TO NONE, along with their powerful political yield, not to mention everything ALPA has done for us pilots and continue to do in the history of aviation, that is worth the extra 5 bucks every month and more. I don't want some weak trucking union that can't stand up to management and won't do anything for me. I look at Teamsters' membership list, and with the except of ONE airline (Horizon) and maybe ABX (if they still represent them), they are all crappy, third rate airlines with crap contracts and crap pay. Great Lakes, Gulfstream, GOJET??? Why would I or any self-respecting pilot want to associate with a union who represents a "pay to work" airline, and an ALTER EGO airline????? I know Republic is a member, but honestly their contract isnt so great compared to other regionals of their size, and their FO pay rates suck, considering the large equipment they fly.
Regardless, what it comes down to for me is the legal and medical expertise of ALPA. The bottom line is that I want protection from management's abuses and protection for my job, and I believe strongly that ALPA can provide that for me. They are a pilot's union, and their only interest is for pilots. Teamsters could never even come close regarding legal and medical protection.

FlyJSH, I believe I've asked you before in another thread what your reasons are for supporting IBT. I don't think you ever responded.. and I am genuinely curious. If a fellow Colgan pilot has solid reasons for believing in them, I can respect that. However, if they support IBT for reasons such as "ALPA will be a conflict of interest and Pinnacle will staple us" then I can only think of that person of a douchebag, because they obviously haven't taken the time to research and think for themselves instead of listening to rumors. (Stapling is illegal and won't happen under any circumstances.)
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