republic is being very aggresive in aquiring new flying but to call it the new mesa is crap. Our pay is equal to every one elses---except mesa's its alot better than that. We dont have junior manning, have more guranteed days off, have block or better, and properly staff an airline enough to allow it to run reliably. Yeah we are getting more flying while others are losing theirs but its not additional, its replacement flying to cover what we lost with F9.
I don't know how PSA came into the discussion, but I will be the first to say it sucks here. No regional, for that matter, is a place for a career. My whole point is that anyone who goes in and performs a job that replaces the pilots that work there and puts them on the street is a scumbag. Republic pilots need to stand up and send a message to management that they will not do midwest flying.
Quote:
In fact I challenge anybody.., please come up with any example of how pilots at an airline participated in the management's decision making process with regard to contractual decisions. Not talking about greavances or injunctions or work actions.., I'm talking about actual vote counting decisions that it's pilots took part in while employed in a part 121 airline where a decision to enter into a contract involving future aircarrier operations. Short scope and CBA, I'd be willingto bet that that mechanism doesn't exist. We fly from point a to b and that folks is about ALL I can see we have control over. I could be way off base here with my "pilot's" soda straw perspective of the universe but I think I'm pretty close. Just something to consider when we vent misguided gripes at each other.
Now back to the Alaska and RAH discussion ; )
I think the pilots at XJT who torpedoed the acquisition by SkyWest would disagree with your statement. Once it became clear that we were being used as pawns for SkyWest to get their foot (back) in the door with CAL while they (CAL) squeezed everything out of us they could, leaving SkyWest free to dismantle our company as they saw fit, most of us couldn't wait for SkyWest to take a hike. Fortunately a mechanism existed for us to be able to tell SkyWest to pound sand. You exclude scope and CBAs from the discussion. I'm not sure why...maybe because that's the only way someone could refute your point? Your CBA is what determines how you and management interact. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, having that scope clause in our CBA, which was VOTED on by the PILOTS the last time the contract was up for a vote, gave us the leverage to have some say in the merger. To put it another way, because the merger would have required us to vote on a substantial change to our contract, the pilots DID in fact have a DIRECT say on if the deal would be allowed to happen.Originally Posted by Beechlover
I disagree. It's been proven time and time and time again.., that management in MANY airlines throught the history of comercial aviation does what it wants..., regardless of contract..., regardless of ethics..., most definately regardless of it's pilots opinion, wishes, or desires.., ie we have ZERO..., I'll say it again.., ZERO input as to what contracts, deals, or agreements our respective airline makes. Trust me when I say we, the RAH pilot group are no happier about the midwest deal thatn the midwest pilots. Did that change anything? nope, do you think if our vote actually counted in this, it would've happened at all? It sure didn't save me from getting furoughd so I'll squash that argument right now.In fact I challenge anybody.., please come up with any example of how pilots at an airline participated in the management's decision making process with regard to contractual decisions. Not talking about greavances or injunctions or work actions.., I'm talking about actual vote counting decisions that it's pilots took part in while employed in a part 121 airline where a decision to enter into a contract involving future aircarrier operations. Short scope and CBA, I'd be willingto bet that that mechanism doesn't exist. We fly from point a to b and that folks is about ALL I can see we have control over. I could be way off base here with my "pilot's" soda straw perspective of the universe but I think I'm pretty close. Just something to consider when we vent misguided gripes at each other.
Now back to the Alaska and RAH discussion ; )
Now, you are correct in saying that management does not come to the pilots for a vote when making day to day decisions about the running of the airline...nor should they. Any company run in that manner would be the most inefficient and ineffective company in the market place. I am paid to fly, they are paid to manage...I knew that accepting the job. But there are ways for a pilot group to protect itself using contractual language and smart negotiations.
Sorry for the history lesson, I know it doesn't entirely apply to the topic. It just aggravates me when guys through up their hands and say "I just fly from A to B. I'm just a helpless pawn. I have no say." It is always worth raising a stink to protect your interests.
Quote:
There's a problem if you are flying around 70 seat jets and you can't make a career out of it. Maybe you need to change your thinking. Are the "regionals" putting mainline pilots out of work? I would say so. Skywest's 700's and especially the little guppies that Shuttle flies are the reason for United pilots being out of work. Mesa, PSA's and Republic's aircraft are the reason US Airways pilots are out of work. I would love to move on but the way things are going... what for.Originally Posted by texaspilot76
I don't know how PSA came into the discussion, but I will be the first to say it sucks here. No regional, for that matter, is a place for a career. My whole point is that anyone who goes in and performs a job that replaces the pilots that work there and puts them on the street is a scumbag. Republic pilots need to stand up and send a message to management that they will not do midwest flying.
Quote:
Those happy that good things are happening at their company when it results in others' misfortune are best advised to keep their thoughts to themselves lest they be thought a douchebag.
Ding Ding Ding Ding...We have a winner...Thank you for playing. Some of us do get it. Originally Posted by JungleBus
Honestly, I think most everyone in the industry realizes regional pilots have very little to do with the deals our companies make. That said, anytime you have a regional pilot gloating over new flying that came at the expense of a major or higher-paid regional with no regard for the larger consequences throughout the industry, it makes everyone else think "that's exactly the kind of person who'd gladly take a paycut for more growth." Those happy that good things are happening at their company when it results in others' misfortune are best advised to keep their thoughts to themselves lest they be thought a douchebag.
Quote:
...My whole point is that anyone who goes in and performs a job that replaces the pilots that work there and puts them on the street is a scumbag....
Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone.Originally Posted by texaspilot76
I don't know how PSA came into the discussion......My whole point is that anyone who goes in and performs a job that replaces the pilots that work there and puts them on the street is a scumbag....
Quote:
Republic is the new Mesa. These guys walk tall thinking they are a mainline pilot in their erj-170 because they take mainline jobs. Any republic pilot that agrees to fly whipsaw routes should be shunned.
I hear the excuse "we can't help what management makes us do". If Midwest pilots were on strike, would you still fly their routes? No, because if you did, you would be a scab. If it weren't for the current NMB cronies, Midwest pilots would be on strike for their contract be violated. So, anyone that agrees to do their flying is no better than a scab.
Republic pilots need to take a stand for what's right or face the scrutiny of their peers.
Um...., yeah..., it's called a grievance..., expidited one at that... filed..., any other suggestions buddy.., we're all ears! Oh I got it.., hey I'll quit my job in protest..,. yeah thats the ticket.., to late, furloughd..oh well. Very constructive comments btw. Appreciate the input : )Originally Posted by texaspilot76
I agree. First the Midwest whipsaw, then bribing us airways for flying, and now a potential whipsaw on Horizon/ Alaska.Republic is the new Mesa. These guys walk tall thinking they are a mainline pilot in their erj-170 because they take mainline jobs. Any republic pilot that agrees to fly whipsaw routes should be shunned.
I hear the excuse "we can't help what management makes us do". If Midwest pilots were on strike, would you still fly their routes? No, because if you did, you would be a scab. If it weren't for the current NMB cronies, Midwest pilots would be on strike for their contract be violated. So, anyone that agrees to do their flying is no better than a scab.
Republic pilots need to take a stand for what's right or face the scrutiny of their peers.
Were'nt we talking about RAH's scab flying of Alaska?
Quote:
3.....2.....1.....
Originally Posted by utedrummer
The way this thread is going I predict a big LOCK on it with a mod saying something like "name calling and flamebaiting, this thread is going nowhere (grow up you whinny ass boys)" happening very soon. Think you can save the thread by changing your tunes? 3.....2.....1.....
This thread should be locked. People need a scapegoat for the decline of the majors. This week the blame falls to RAH. I seriously feel like I'm reading a thread written by catty, menstrual, 15 year old girls the week before homecoming.
I'm a 1st year FO @ RAH, and have been on two of the three certificates. I have never seen any of our pilots walk around with an air of superiority. If you think any of us look down on any other airline, that's your own F'd up perception.
As for the Midwest issue, to all of the big talkers out there...Please tell me what to do. What can I at the bottom of my seniority list do to rectify the situation. I am open to any suggestions. If you have no constructive criticism, then maybe consider just saying nothing at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by texaspilot76
I don't know how PSA came into the discussion, but I will be the first to say it sucks here. No regional, for that matter, is a place for a career. My whole point is that anyone who goes in and performs a job that replaces the pilots that work there and puts them on the street is a scumbag. Republic pilots need to stand up and send a message to management that they will not do midwest flying.
Armchair quarterbacks are the best. If PSA had 70-seat aircraft sitting around collecting dust and burning cash from the coffers, only to work out the same deal with Midwest, WWTPD? (What Would Texas Pilot Do?)
