Your info about the traning contract is all wrong. Yes $7,500 for 15 months. But you only have to pay if you quit before the 15 mos is up. If you get fired you DO NOT have to pay. If you fail during training being in ground school, CPT, Sim, or even on your checkride, YOU DO NOT PAY! get your facts right.

The lady that makes the class schedule told me, directly, if I were to fail or get fired, I would still be liable with interest. This is what she told me, so that is the factual information I received.

Well as for productive conversation Sapd: I got hired with 950/110 and upgraded in 7 months and have about 2300 TT 750 TPIC.

Why is it that so many people who DO NOT work here or have old second hand information choose to post about GLA like you are in the know? Notice that the people ripping on this place do not work here. Yes I too have my moments where I like to ***** about something QOL here but as a whole I and happy with the choice to come here (just like the my friends who have been hired directly from lakes to Delta, NWA, NJA, Alligent, Southwest (one just last week), corporate, ect...). I am not saying this is the only place to get hired from or saying that Lakes is whats right for everyone, not at all. However, a two to three year stay at Lakes accelerates a pilot to the next step (the career job) and as mentioned in previous posts the pay issues spread out over the long term more than make this time just fine with me. It is true that some have chosen to lateral out of here to another regional but the implication that this is a required step of even close to the norm is simply false. I am not arguing rather just putting the information out there as the whole point of this thread is for people seeking information while making the decsion whether or not to try to work here.

To clear up soem misconceptions that have not yet been addressed on this thread. It is correct that with ATP min's and 300 in type you can bid upgrade and will likely get it the next month. We do not fly around all day on autopilot in the Beech as we do not have one, no GPS either (we are /a). True there is no cancelation pay so if you do hit a rough spot with some canceled flights it sucks however I flew 116 hours in October (we are 135 duty time rules) so I don't mind an occaional cancelation! The implication about reserve hell was in reference to CA's with low senority I believe and can say that the returning CA's who are furloughed from other airlines and back in the left seat at Lakes have been flying pleanty. STL was a junior base and there were about 12 displaced out there for a month or two before being able to bid Denver however that is NO LONGER THE CASE. That was about 6 months ago and now the STL base is either TDY MKE or DEN but there are no STL lines right now with no signs of any displacements anytime soon so you will hold Denver as a new hire.

Finally I too would like to speak to the bring the industry down comments. I fly 19 seat airplanes for 19 seat pay. I am not going to rip on your choice because that is right for you but don't act like you are a hero for "not lowering the bar" when reffering to Lakers. The only ones who should be ripping on Lakes are current and ex-lakers! Once a laker always a laker!

Putting everyone down is a great trait of this industry. So is misguided arrogance. As long as you are working, being safe, and are happy then more power to you.

I just wish more pilots took the time to learn to spell. We "collectively" set the bar my friends.

A very good post, except for that one line... You fly a 19 seat airplane for what they offer to pay you to do it, not for what it should pay.

The responsibilities of being PIC in a transport category aircraft, even a B1900, are worth more than what they, and some others, offer.

Other than that it is a great way to build PIC time to go someplace else, and that is what their management is counting on. People willing to do it for little or nothing to gain PIC time to go someplace else...

In the old days, not too long ago, we all did it when we were CFI's... we'd go ride right seat, many times for no pay at all, in the King Air, or Baron or whaever to gain the extra flight time to get that wondeful first regional job.... and since there was, at the time, a never ending supply of eager people willing to do it for next to nothing, the job paid nothing. It hasn't changed much, and neither have we.

FWIW, the 1900 is a Commuter Category aircraft.

I wouldn't be too worried about the STL base. Currently there are no lines out of STL and it would not surprise me if the base was to close early next year! Expect reserve to be 1-2 months, however I have been hearing that even on reserve, some pilots have been getting 80+ hours a month!

Let the RJ guys fly there RJs, when they are looking to upgrade, i'll be looking at the majors or Cargo! BTW..I have been there 6 months and I have got about 550 hours with Lakes....I would love to see the average RJ FO with those times!!

Ugh, that sounds dreadful. You boys have fun with that.

Ok, this is too easy. I'll just smile to myself, besides RJ FOs can only do 100/month and 1000/year.

It's fun for now, but after a year you'll be happy when they're not working you that much. I enjoy what I do, but flying shouldn't be the only thing in your life. Getting 14 or 16 days a month off while still making good money is the goal.

Have fun.





OO.

At this stage of entry level job where you'll be payed below poverty if you fly an RJ or a 1900, you might as well get the most flight time out of it rather than sitting in a crash pad flying once a month like those who aren't furloughed are doing right now.

I hear ya, and I do agree. I'm just a lazy SOB. 1100 hours in a year sounds like WAY too much work. :D

Generalizations. Not everyone sits. And those that do say like skywest folk are decently paid. Not everyone is supplementing themselves with viper pay.

From what I'm seeing from the current and former Lakes pilots on here, you sound like a great group of guys. I just sent my application in online last week. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that I get a call to come out to DEN and interview!

Every low time guy who has ever dreamed of being a regional pilot gets chastised for not going the CFI route?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.....:rolleyes:

He wasnt being chastised for being a cfi. (I was a CFI) I just believe a CFI has slightly more credibility than a subway sandwich artist with regards to tellling people that GLA pilots are lowering the bar.:)

My sister worked at subway once....

I dated your sister!!!

The "Bar" thing. You really do have a inferiority complex. You don't set the bar just like your hours are not superior to anyone else. Pointing fingers is silly. And not everyone went the CFI route...some wore a uniform.

This is silly, just flew with a CA who spent two years at GL and moved up to a RJ company. Guess he missed that pipeline generalization.

Flying is flying. People are willing to make certain sacrifices. Some more than others. The only line to draw is larger than 76 seats should be mainline. We only screw ourselves.

Again we all fly. Pounding your chest and thinking GL is amazing and you move right up is silly just as RJ's thinking the same. It's just a personal decision as to how much manure you want to shovel and for how long!

Again, set the bar.

So she must have taught you something about flying then!!

Here is all you need to know about Lakes:

Lakes sucks, I mean really sucks. As a captain, you are constantly pulling your hair out over something, whether it is junior-manning, a maintenance issue, schedule changes, being over-worked, and the list goes on and on all for crap pay and crap QOL.

With that being said, I guarantee that if you start at an RJ job on the same day I start at Lakes, you will be my FO at a major or legacy. So does that make it worth it? For some yes, and for others no. You must decide for yourself.

I can tell you from experience that the only thing majors seem to care about is turbine PIC. I was the lowest time guy in my new-hire class at a legacy carrier and I had half the time of the next lowest guy. The common denominator between most of the guys in class was 1500-2000 turbine PIC.

So if you enjoy teaching 8s-on-pylons and think that somehow that is better experience than flying real-world IFR then by all means, stay where you are and leave the job to someone who wants it.

I've got to go now, your sister is coming over.

I will take your guarantee any day.

For one, there is no movement at the Legacy's so at the worst we will both be FO's.

Perhaps this industry will get back to where it once was....23/25 were military.....YOU NEVER KNOW SO DON'T MAKE PROMISES.

Hey, maybe you will be my dad's FO. He only has 13 years until retirement at a Legacy.

This attitude coupled with inept leadership is why civilian flying can be horrible.

Grow up.

Relax, man. You're taking this way to personally!

Lakes has it's ups and downs, but the people that fly there enjoy the flying that they do and the equipment they do it on. You don't like people bashing your company, don't bash theirs.

"Can't we all just get along?"







OO

Brother it's not personal. I don't care what people say about my company because that changes little. It's not personal at all. I have flown with a couple of CA's that are great guys from GL. I just tire of this banter.

I got two uncles and a dad at "legacy" airlines so their isn't much I haven't seen. I just tire of this idiocy. Sometimes you just can't pity the foo' that is willing to take on 100k in loans in a dying industry.

Just like to point out to those who got upset at me for starting this thread that we have had numerous posts here within a few days.

Thanks!

It was Brewmasters sister the sandwich artist...blame her!:p

Yep so instead of making decent money as an FO at a regional you can make the same pay as a captain at GLA, which is crap, building the tpic time.
Doesn't sound like too bad of a deal if you think about it...

Maybe I can be your dad's FO, but you are still going to be mine because I will have been there for many many years before you got there so :p.

Oh, and who the hell wants to grow up?

P.S. My dad can beat up your dad.

Time out!!!

Thanks. Good post. Appreciate the extra info. Good thread too. Glad it stayed open. No serious burns yet, just good arguments and some good humor. BTW, I think maybe there are some FOs at Eagle who will also retire in 13 years with your dad. Ouch! There goes the thread. Hey -- Just funnin' Eagle. My hat is off to you guys. Great that you have had no furloughs. Wish we could all say that.

Lakes doesn't currently have a furloughs, but they have and do furlough.


How much was a 1st year BigSky FO earning? $21/hour.




OO.

Lets have a round of applause to every pilot employed by Great Lakes Air! Seriously, in this part of the country, IFR is almost certain during the winter months. They have to hand fly their equipment! No auto pilots, how many of us can say that? Flying around the midwest, especially near the Rockies is not an easy challenge even during VMC. For these guys/gals who spends most of their time flying IMC near mountains down to minimums... well, that's a thrill ride like we all felt back when we took our first training flight. Great job Great Lakes!!! My hat's off to ya:)

So....

Lots of Multi turbine time, quick upgrade, lots of PIC time, and majors in 4 years! Whats so bad about that. It seems like most who are at the regionals are only there to transition to the majors. Why not do it sooner?

Sure you won't make much but from those at Lakes now it sounds like you will be working over 100 a month at 16hr thats as much at any regional flying guarantee.

It also sounds like the majors like those from lakes because of the difficult flying they do.

Thanks for the posts everyone!

Not quite so peachy. 85 hours average is still around 16k per year, before taxes! If you're on track to actually fly 100 per month for 12 months, you're more than likely going to hate your life. It's one of the examples of if it was easy everyone would do it. Most come in with your mentality but the temptation of the shiny dual FMS equipped CRJ/170s that fly very high and fast is too great for most who lateral when they do meet the mins. Those guys that actually stick around have definitely paid their dues because the flying is definitely harder with all the BS of a cheap operation that comes with it.

I will take my military time over your arrogance and my dad's. You crack me up....

FWIW, I've flown both and RJ and the Mighty Beech. The only thing I liked about the RJ was the FA and the APU. Flying wise - block to block - the 1900 was much more rewarding and interesting

you're one to talk. you've got so much shiny jet syndrome that you're working at gojet.

also, what you're saying about lateral moves makes no sense.

1) when you got hired at TSA with 200 hrs, lakes still had higher mins. why would anyone go to lakes to gain time to fly an RJ when there are RJ jobs out there that require less time....ahemgojetcough.

2) the whole reason anyone would go to lakes is for the PIC. why would someone go there to get terrible pay just to jump ship before the quick upgrade? some people actually care about experience and becoming a better pilot. these guys actually flight instruct, fly cargo, and/or go to lakes. they don't do these things to get the first jet job they can

FWIW, I have always had a desire to go fly those 19's in the soup...I'm just drowning in student loans so I can't make it happen...but maybe I will when you and your boys take our 50 seat flying.

You know, I actually read through this whole thread and must say it's a little disappointing. If you're in aviation to make a ton of money, you're in the wrong industry anymore. I'm a 370TT Commercial Pilot living in Denver and would LOVE to be flying at Lakes. Growing up, I ALWAYS wanted to be an airline pilot. My grandfather started out on DC-3s at Lake Central and ended up at USAir when he retired in the 80s. I worshipped that man, and I wanted to be just like him. Just to be able to say that I flew passengers around because it was my passion and what I wanted to do in life, certainly not because I wanted to make millions of dollars. Any chance I get these days I'm in the CRJ or A320 simulator in my office building learning something new (and it is very educational), but I'd kill to be out there actually flying one of those 1900s.

I'd rather be poor and love going to my job day in and day out than rich and stuck in a job I hated...

Zachary

You have a great attitude and I understand where youre coming from, BUT we all eventually have to feed our family and we must struggle to get the industry back to where it once was with regard to pay. Pay IS important on many different levels. And never sell yourself short. Unfortunatley the pay at the little regionals like lakes will never be honorable but it makes up for it in other ways (quick PIC Turbine). I chose to opt out of the airlines and get paid what I thought I deserved flying corporate even though the airlines where always my dream. That's my little way of rebelling but we should all find some way of making this an honorable profession for future generations.

No offense, really, but we all have our priorities. For some of you, that priority seems to be family and being able to provide for them, for others, like myself, it's ensuring that I have a stable life that I enjoy before I start a family. In today's environment, a starting pilot would have a very difficult time supporting his family, financially or physically being there. I'm certainly not trying to take sides, and again no offense, but perhaps some of you out there should decide what your priorities are before leaping into aviation as a career. In a perfect world we'd be able to have everything we ever wanted without having to sacrifice...sometimes we can, but most of the time we can't and we must compromise. I'll be the first to admit that I'm slightly behind in my life-plan, but I'm working hard to try to get where I want to be in life so I can then have all of those things that I've ever wanted.

I can afford to say that I'd love to be flying at Lakes right now because I don't have a family to support, it's just me that I have to worry about. I don't have to worry about putting food on the table for my family and I don't have to worry about putting my relationship with someone else second below my job. Am I lonely, hell yes I am, but like I said, sometimes we must make sacrifices for things we really want. Everyone must find that balance, and who are the people on this forum to tell anyone else what that is? For some people, flying for Lakes would be the perfect start, great flying and a chance to really learn what flying is all about. For others, being a CFI for how ever many years until they get on with a "regional" is the way to go; they're home every night and for the most part it is stable. For me, it's slowly plugging along until I can figure out how to get into either one of those scenarios.

Being an airline pilot just ain't what it used to be, and honestly, I don't see that changing in the real near future. If you don't have the passion to be in this industry, chances are that you are going to be miserable until you're flying that 777 across the ocean to some exotic destination. I urge you to really think about why you got into flying in the first place because after reading several of the posts in this thread, several of you seem very jaded.

Zachary

"some of you seem very jaded"

Not me! My beautiful Sugar Moma wife helped me through Lakes!