Great Lakes Hiring
 

Can someone tell me if Great Lakes has improved their operations over the last couple years?

A few years ago I heard that they were one of the worst airlines to work for, is that still true?

I also heard that FO's are being upgraded in 6 months to a year, is this true as well?

Use the SEARCH option please
 

Why can't people interested in Great Lakes use the SEARCH function or neglect to use it entirely? That said, good luck to you.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...eat-lakes.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hi...es-hiring.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...-airlines.html

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...-121-guys.html

maybe its because the information I am looking for isn't out there or current

The info on the apc airline info page is up to date. Still poverty wages still upgrading really quick. Any more questions?

What about this 15 month training contract I keep hearing about?

15 month contract and no pay during training.

Two more reasons why nobody wants to fly for them.

Nobody huh? Yeah who would want to work for a place where you can log 121PIC turbine time as soon as you have ATP min's, that is if you can hack it. There is no mystery about pay or quality of life sucking but the advatages are clear for career progression. So yet another know it all CFI wants to pipe up like you have some great industry insight to make a smart remark about my job. Well let me share with you that I am happy with my choice. Every friend of mine who was hired to RJ jobs at the same time I was hired at GLA is on the street again and I am a Captain. Many of them are applying here now. I am not trying to make it sound like this is a wonderful place for pay or QOL but it is absolutely serving it's purpose for me and those of us who are here. So, there are poeple who want to fly here and it is a choice that should be made with the big picture in mind. If this is not the place for you great! But, where do you get off...

Merely logging time is often not enough to take a job someplace.

old GLA threads
 

Reading the old threads ... there were guys who were applying July - Sept timeframe (ChillBillPilot, rickR, shaunster9797, Aileron). If any of you guys are at Lakes now, how has it worked out? [/font]

Question for Moonship
 

When did you hire on and how much time then and now?

Or maybe you could just add to one of the existing threads instead of opening a new one?

Gotta love when CFI's with a few hours act like they know what the industry is all about! Sit back and learn little buddy! Go sit in the right seat of an RJ for a few years and then bestow us all with your insight!

It's not like there's a limited amount of thread space. No need to be the forum police. :rolleyes:

I'm merely making a logical suggestion. There's a Comair thread, a Mesaba thread, a Pinnacle thread....etc....

Why have 20 threads for Great Lakes? Group all those ideas and ?'s in the same place and then maybe people can find the answers they need instead of having to sift through multiple threads.

Wow!

I didn't realize how much people hate it when a new thread is started. Obviously I am new to APC forum and I did it mostly because I wanted to get feedback from current Great Lakes pilots.

I am in a situation where I can go back to a very well paid CFI job or look for a Part 135 or Regional job.

The dilemma I have is that I am a college student who instructs part time. Before I came back to school I had a very good instructing job in phoenix and I have the option of going back there for great pay and schedule. When I want to leave for something turbine I do not want to have to take a HUGE pay cut and would rather accept it now.

Any thoughts?

I dont know it all. But Im not going to lower the bar yet again by taking a job that pays much less than what I make as a CFI. I will hold out for a job that has better pay, pays during training, and better QOL. Im not looking to build time, I build about 100 a month and learn alot more doing this then I would flying around on autopilot. People who go out and fly for food and will work for $16/hr is what is making this industry the way it is.

Agreed. I was once hyped about getting PIC turbine time as fast as possible, and making $16/hour. One thing I learned from my Great Lakes interview (this is what they HR lady actually told me), that with the 15 month training contract, if either you quit OR you get fired, you owe that contract back. I asked her if I failed the checkride in IOE, or any recurrent training, and got fired, if I would have to pay the contract; and she told me YES. I believe she also told me that the $7,500 started accumulating intrest as soon as you got fired or quit. That turned me off.

But back to bradeku's point, if you want 121 experience, and want to be captain after a year, then go for it. If you want to earn money to survive, and to pay off student loans, get a great aerial survey job like I have, or another gig that suits you, and bank $$$; fly a twin a year after you get with the company, and get multi PIC time. I hear the airlines hire from all types of aviation jobs (121, 135, straight CFI, aerial survey). I know, because they hired me straight out of an aerial survey gig.

Just get some experience. Straight out of college I was hyped about flying for the regionals, but once I got out there in the industry, I found other types of aviation jobs. Just explore the possibilities.

Well then you would be suprised to know what you get paid flying an rj. I imagine somewhere between 19 and 23 dollars and hour. Do the per seat math of 19 seats at 16 dollars/hour vs 70 seats at 23dollars/ hour. Generally, 2nd year pay at lakes is captain pay at 27 /hr vs what 34 per hour at other regionals. Yeah, pay sucks everywhere, you see, so stop acting like an RJ gig is SUPERSWEET. It's a means to an end and I would choose the quickest route to that end, but either one sucks as far as pay is concerned. Oh and by the way you are correct that CFI'ing is better pay and good for you for going that route. However, CFIing is better pay than Eagle, Skywest,Republic, MESA etc., as well. Now I must digress; with the industry as slow as it is and assuming it stays that way for a few years, I would rather be in a jet with a little better QOL if I were to be stuck somewhere for 10 years. But just so ya know I was making a whopping 45K per year after 4 years at GLA because of being able to move up the ranks so quickly. That quick movement helps make up for that crappy first year pay even though its still not enough to stick around very long. Good luck and remember that when handing out career advise to people new to aviation that being a CFI is a very short pedestal from which to lead. (Blind Leading Blind)

Is GLA still currently hiring for classes or for a pool?

I'm very interested and would appreciate any info regarding classes etc. and how long does it take for them to get back to you after you submit your application?

any info on hiring minimums and how soon to expect a class date? saw it was 750 tt, is that the bare min's or do they want 1000 + ? i ask because i dont even meet the 750tt min's, so wondering if i stand a chance!

any info appreciated, thanks so much!

Lets see, GLA's pay as a Captain 27/hr. The regional I got hired on is about 31 hr...as a FO. I could go work for GLA but im not. Not going to lower the bar for the next generation but my friend you go ahead and keep lowering it. Yea I may not know it all but from what it sounds like I just may know a little more than you do.

I completely agree with your other points, but I just wanted to address this one. I was a CFI before I went into the airlines, and while I learned a ton teaching, I also matured immensely as a pilot "flying around on autopilot." Not picking on you specifically, but I've heard that same argument from many CFIs, and I probably made the same arguments myself before I made the move.

Trust me, you'll learn just as much, if not more about flying by flying turbine equipment in line operations than you did teaching. Me personally, I learned how to think ahead and plan, what really matters flying IFR (I used to teach a lot of trivia I came to found), and I became a much stronger and smoother instrument pilot as a result. I'm flying six-pack equipped props again and having flown a more automated jet has still made me a better pilot by far.

Damn. You Lakes guys really have hardons for RJs, don't you. The only people in this thread that have talked about the type of aircraft flown are the Lakers.

The other people have talked about the pay (or lack of), QOL and contract. The 1900 is a good plane (and has no autopilot for the poster that talked about flying around on a autopilot all day. Yes the Bro does.) If you're a good pilot going to Lakes, you'll be a great one when you leave, but that's where it ends.

How about Lakes' involuntary Jr. manning, no cancelation pay, schedule changes like having you 5 day DEN trip changed to a 5 day STL trip with no pay protection if the STL trip is worth less. Trips that are block to 8 hrs a day.

Yes as a second year at a company that operates EMB120 and CRJ, I as an FO i make $35 an hour, but I get 100% deadhead pay, cancelation pay and a voluntary Jr man policy with 150% pay. And Block or better.

I have a few friends at Lakes all of them Captains and I make more, have a better quality of life and I don't sit a the pub complaining about how much I hate my company.

Lakes is awesome for the quick upgrade, in fact your initial new-hire class is also your upgrade class (so pay attention!) You're going to have thousands of PIC turbine hours by the time anyone starts hiring again.

I'd personally rather sit right seat (in a 1900, Bro or RJ) with a good QOL making a small amount more than being treated like s#it building PIC time at Lakes, but that's just me.

Once again for anyone that has question about Lakes and would like to ask real Lakers this is the Unofficial Great Lakes Pilot Forum:

Great Lakes Aviation - Airline Forum - Readytocopy.com





OO.

Good Reply its nice to see someone relpy without an insult to stir up everyone

sherwood80

Where are doing aerial survey at? That sounds pretty cool. Who did you get hired by in the regionals?


I would like to point out that I have been instructing for 2 years. 900 dual given. Frankly I'm getting bored of it. I would like to challenge myself with something different and would like start building multi time for the majors.

Even if I was to get hired by great lakes I wouldn't be able to upgrade to captain for two years since I'm 21. So I would say that I am looking to get pic as soon as possible but I would like to have a change of pace.

I also meet 135 mins but don't know who is hiring for that now.

One little known secret about lakes and the whole not getting paid during training thing....It is possible to be paid during training....but there is a catch. You must be hired on to a pilot position from within the company.

i.e. ramper --> pilot, etc. And if I remember correctly, you'll be paid 40hrs/week at whatever your wage was from your non-flying job during training.

There have actually been several guys to go this way, though I can't say whether or not they had that intention from the get-go.

Umm...if your working for a regional, you ARE lowering the bar. (Again, refer to dollar per seat) All Im saying is that myself and many others have gone to Great Lakes and 4 years later ended up at a major airline, Fractional or Corporate flight department making great money and a great QOL. 4 years at most regionals equals 4th year FO pay(usually) To each there own I guess. I DO know that had I gone to most other regionals I wouldnt have even met my current departments insurance mins for flight time, so it worked for me. Like I said if you like the 30-40 dollars per hour pay and can swing that for 5-7 years then dont listen to me, you would be wise to go fly an RJ. The guys I know that went to Southwest and FedEx from GLA might laugh at that pay though. The ONLY ONLY reason to go to lakes is to get in and get out. GLA does suck to work for and Im not defending that, but It works for some. I also have several good friends who love their jobs at Skywest and wouldnt trade it for anything. I've just been around a little longer and take offense to a CFI trying to run interference on those researching career info. By the way which regionals are even hiring right now besides GLA?

If I was to look into GLA, how long would someone with my time (4800tt, 1800pic turbine) be looking at sitting the right seat? Sounds like you have to sit right seat 2-3 months min. Do you get paid CA or FO during this? I'm asking because I know they used to hire captains and am wondering if they still do. Just trying to explore all my options at this time. Thanks

This might be the most entertaining post in this whole thread. I like how it's nearly impossible to distinguish if the post is serious or sarcastic! Very nicely played!

Now that is cool!

I am working aerial survey for a vendor called Air America, out of Daytona Beach, FL. It is a great place to work, and you keep current. You are free at will to make your own decisions, fly into IFR conditions, fly at night--basically have freedom to do as you choose, when relocating to job sites. Nice way to stay current while getting paid. GREAT pay.

I got hired by Piedmont back in April. Swimming in the pool. I much like traveling in my own airplane, and paying student loans while still being able to bank money into my investments and savings accounts. If you want more info, pm me.

When I interviewed back in August, I believe you needed about 300 TT with GLA, and then if you meet upgrade mins, you are eligible for captain upgrade. I believe you get paid the FO wage when you start. I believe their upgrade mins were 1500TT, so you should be good after a few months. My friends that work there say to except 80+hrs of flying per month.

Did you mean "expect"? How much flying is there for the newly upgraded, bottom-of-the-totem-pole, lower-senority-than-the-FO, captain? How long does reserve hell last?

And that is the basic premice that those of us that work here say. The long and short of it is, four years at Lakes equals a job at the majors. We aren't trying to say that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread or it works out for everyone, but it is an ends to the means. And I'm sorry Bradeku, but a job with Lakes is hardly contributing to the infamous "RACE TO THE BOTTOM". How can you compare a branded airline that exclusively flies EAS contracts with jet regionals that bicker over mainline flying. And while Sherwood implies that you don't need a regional job since the "airlines" hire from an eclectic group, the airline he is WAITING to fly for is a regional.

You hear all the talk about how bad life is at regional airlines and then everyone lines up to say how much better they are than Lakes. How much better? Think of it like a band-aid. You can get it done quick by ripping it off or you can pull it off slowly and it only hurts a little for a long time.

why would you rip on him? he was asking a question goodness

working out awesome its a grind for sure tho... about to take checkride in a few days and then off to ioe ... the plane is gonna be a blast to fly

by the way - denver is awesome!!! snowboard season here it comes woo wooooooooo

This has all been said before, and it's getting annoying that people are oblivious to the following argument. If you examine a 10 year span, starting with when a Laker first begins his or her 121 career, he/she is , without a doubt, one of the highest paid pilots in the industry over that 10 year period. Basically, we make it higher up the ladder much quicker. The affect an extremely small EAS commuter like Lakes has on the rest of the industry is nil. Lakes operates like commuter airlines of the past; like operations that flew Metros, 1900Cs, and Jetstreams. Those operations didn't pay the best, but you got your time and got out. Speak to about 30-40% of major airline captains, and they will tell you this same story. You can't really compare Lakes to a 70+ seat RJ operator. A more fair and accurate comparison would be to compare a 70+ seat RJ operator to a major airline. You can hardly call most regionals airlines "regionals" these days. Those flying hub to hub in aircraft less than 150 seats are, on average, doing it for half the pay they were 15 years ago. Yeah, Lakes is to blame for that....whatever. The math is simple:

Lakes- Year 1: $16, Year 2: $29 (upgrade), Year 3: $30 (2 types and check airman possible), Year 4: Probation pay at large jet operator

RJ operator- Year 1: $23, Year 2: $30, Year 3: $34, Year 4: $36, Year 5: $65 (upgrade)

Very well said.

From talking to my three friends who are captains, and my one friend as an FO almost ready to upgrade, back in late August, it looked like fresh pilots out of classes were immediately transitioning to right seat. If there is a reserve, I don't think it is that long. I know they will be sending you to the STL base, and from my understanding, the STL bases are short staffed.

This is true. I never implied that an airline us survey pilots will be hired by would be the majors. You know as well as I do, that with the current status in today's economy, lots of GLA pilots will transition to other regionals, or corporate, and are not guaranteed a job at the majors. All my three captain friends at GLA are looking for corporate gigs.

My girlfriend's Dad had to go from GLA to AWAC, then to Delta. I know captains at regionals who have been on the waiting list for Southwest for years (a friend of mine has been a captain at AWAC for at least 3 years).

You can't be certain with this industry....at least that we can agree on.