DAL Flowthrough - ASA/Comair/Skywest?
 

How do you guys feel that Mesaba and Compass have flowthrough with Delta and it doesn't appear that the other DCI carriers have the same benefit? Am I missing something?

They are not wholly owned companies so that is silly.

Mesaba and Compass are but they are at the mercy of DAL with pre-existing LOA's but they still as compared to others have the great luxury of flowback. Mesaba is better protected but still.

Isn't Comair still a wholly owned subsiderary? I'm not so sure it would seem so silly if I were a Comair guy and Mesaba and Copmpass pilots start gettiing the call to interview and I didn't.

I seem to remember there was some bad blood a few years back between DL mainline and Comair. Someone else will have to fill in the details. Gut feeling is there won't be a flow-through there.

ASA was a wholly owned but was sold to SKW. SKW never was, so that too is doubtful.

Please correct me if this is wrong. I was outside the issue and my memory is vague.

I forgot to include Comair. I just have seen they are on the wrong side of DAL's pretty world.....

Mesaba and Compass had flow through programs with NWA. That is thanks to the NWA mainline guys, and was helped by the fact that our pilot groups tend to get along alright. The flow through was written into Compasses contract (which was created by NWA mainline ALPA). Once Mesaba became wholly owned, we were given a somewhat different flow through as well to even things out between the NWA wholly-owned regionals.

When Delta decided to buy NWA, one of the conditions worked out was that the flow through programs which were already at NWA would remain intact.

So, essentially, it's an NWA thing. It's up to the new combined Delta pilots to decided what they wish to do with Delta-side wholly owned and other regionals.

Comair does not currently have a flow-through agreement with Delta. Talks had been conducted in the past, however the proposal from Delta was apparently pretty one-sided, so the Comair pilot group rejected the proposal.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe the new DAL agreement has some sort of clause in it that prevents the new Delta mainline from awarding any new aircraft to a wholly-owned subsidiary without a flow-through--hence the reason Comair has been left out to dry in that department as of late. Maybe a Delta pilot or someone with knowledge of the agreement can correct me.

Comair"soon to be furloughed"FO

I hope that's not the case - that would be one ALPA group negotiating away another ALPA group's rights.

ALPA would never do that, right? :D

I hope your flowthrough wording is better than Eagle/AA. Some brutal sh!t going on here because of bad wording.

Your gut feeling is correct. Unless they get in some back door by being merged into Compass, they will never get a flow through.

I agree; Historically, flowthrough agreements have been a magic carrot to dangle at the regional pilots of several airlines.... the reality was the flowback provisions were more heavily used than the flowthrough... AMR being the prime example, but it's still statistically better for mainline than for regional. In this period of time in the industry, I'm glad I am not at a place with an existing floughthrough (because nobody will be being hired as mainlines shrink or are replaced ah la Midwest by RAH...) or flowback, since as those mainline places shrink, as they furlough the only people going onto the streets will be their regional "partners."

If you want a mainline job, negotiate a "preferential hiring" process with carry over DOH and stuff like that... floughthrough/flowback is a bad deal for most. Sure, many have gone the route and benefited from it, but far far more have lost...

carfefull what you wish for, you may not like the end result.

This thread was actually going pretty well and rather "adult-like" until you had to pull this.

Why don't you edit your post and put it as "because nobody will be being hired as mainlines shrink or are replaced ah la Midwest by Midwest Management (using other regional/domestic airlines)."

Otherwise, you just end up stirring the pot and putting pilots against pilots - counterproductive.

The comment was 100% factual...not sure why it's a problem?

I believe his point is that the Midwest flying wasn't "taken away" by the chapublic pilots. The pilots had no say at all in the matter. The flying was actually given away (I believe in violation of their own labor contract) by Midwest management. Don't blame the CHQ guys and gals. Put the blame where it is deserved: on Midwest management.

First, Comair doesn't have flowback and Second there is no interview. You just receive your senority number and then are put into the next class. When you were hired at Compass you were hired at then NWA and now Delta. (thats if it actually happens for all of the naysayers out there)

Thanks for the clarification maxjet..... Does that mean that when the SLI is complete at Delta, Compass and Mesaba pilots will have a seniority number at DAL? I didn't realize this with regard to seniority numbers, I thought there was a formula that guaranteed X number of slots during periods of hiring. Looks like we're all one big happy family.

Is this a reasonable solution for the Compass and Mesaba pilots regarding scope. Instead of flying a 100 seat aircraft at the regionals, you would move up into Delta? Just asking your view of this, not trying to stir the pot.

Tomcat

As far as I know right now...which isn't much...We will keep our old number at XJ or Compass...but thats all it will be is a number...right back to the bottom...I know there is a set number of slots for both Compass and Mesaba pilots per month, what that number is i dont know...however I do believe both XJ and Compass have seperate agreements as far as the flowthrough works...XJ offers a little bit more flowback protection...Mesaba has already had some people flow through to mainline premerger...but its been quite a while ( I think April) since the flow has started back up, anyone have any ideas?

i think i would go with asa

yeah i understand where you are coming from.... where do you work?

Congratulations! Hope the future is good for all of us. It be great to be you on the line at Delta in the future.

Tomcat

So can anyone tell me where all of the furloughed "Delta" pilots are going to go once the fleets start merging and Delta starts parking DC-9s in the desert? Regardless of the parameters of the flowthrough agreement, these guys and gals are going to end up at Mesaba and Compass, leaving the bottom feeders of these companies out on the streets.

Oh, and as has been mentioned in the other thread, Comair will just widdle away to nothing! Sooner rather than later!

So... who said Delta is going to park the DC-9s after the SOC?

Kind of funny and ignorant. NWA doesn't meet DALs staffing requirements. On top of that they are retiring pilots at a very aggressive rate. They are going to keep the 9's around they say for a few more years so there are not (most likely) going to furlough. Quite the opposite, more rumor, DAL is going to be hiring here soon.

All rumor but more well founded than some garbage.

I can't remember the exact wording in ours either and I'm too tired to look it up but if my memory serves me correct I think it is no more than 20 per month from CP and no more than 25% of the seniority list in any 12 rolling months.
And then the other part everyone likes to argue about of course is the no more than 90% of the CP seats rsv'd for flowbacks and of course the turning down the flowthrough locks your seniority above any flowbacks.....Thats most of it as I recall.

I read a newsletter from the union saying the first 12 pilots are now eligible for flowthrough to NWA/DAL....don't know if that includes the 3 flowbacks we still have or not though.

Here's to this whole thing working out this time around.

Wow. First, there is a no-furlough clause in place at Delta. Second, Delta plans to hire in 2009 as early as spring. Stop eating paint chips.

Someone way back hit it on the head when they said most flow through agreements are biased to the mainline. With the exception of the language Mesaba has (and good luck defending THAT if DAL furloughs), in most cases, more flow down than up. In most cases, flow throughs just provide a relief valve for junior mainline pilots.

When I was an MEC rep at ASA (~2004), the idea of a flow through/flow back with us was floated by the DAL MEC. We were unanimously against it for the above reasons, and I'm sure the ASA MEC continues to be.

Preferential hiring... good. Flow through... bad.

Just asking a question, not trying to stir the pot.

Good luck to everyone. This next year will be very interesting.

I just read through a copy of the Delta/NWA JWPA and there is nothing in there stating that, which is sort of good news.

What exactly do you mean with your "good luck defending THAT"? Our language is clear and exact. Only the amount who have flowed up from Mesaba may flow back. No more. Thanks for wishing us luck, though.

The language in the LCBA requires the subsidiaries to give preferential interviews of furloughees at the DCI carriers... not preferential hiring, not flowup/back. Just preferential interview to any furloughees.

Not worth the paper it's written on.

Here's what I mean. Do you really thing ALPA is going to defend you at the expense of Delta pilots if push comes to shove? How will you get them to enforce it? I GUARANTEE that your language will be renegotiated or set aside if Delta furloughs. Oh, and welcome to the delta "family" where everyone eats their young.