The "TA"
 

So the Mesa TA passed, the vote comes from a lot of things, if I recall anyone there less than a year can't vote, that would account for the 200 something. If they could vote they were fools for not regardless of how they voted.

Can anyone comment on what the TA actually covers. QOL issues, pay, soft money, block or better? I'd be interested in knowing what they supported.

It was the same before I left. The top third wanted to keep on keeping on, the middle third was interested in either making it better or burning it down and the bottom third couldn't vote. A lot of the guys in the middle moved out in the last boom.

PS Mr. Moderator, I didn't start this to throw stones, I am looking to see what the contract covers.

Out of 1074 possible voters (full members in good standing, this excludes guys with less than 1 year), 818 voted. A whopping 76% of the pilot group.

418 - Yes.
400 - No.

Pros:
1) Block or better
2) Line Guarantee
3) Lucrative reassignment rules - 200% for reassignment on top of sched. flying
4) 12 month bid cycles

Cons:
1) PBS
2) 2% pay raise for F/O's in 2010
3) Check-in policy: Phone or internet 2 to 24 hours before each trip.
4) Open time paid straight rate - not 150% like it is now
5) 50% DH
6) Numerous small, yet concessionary items. EX/ Inability to decline a standing bid award.

Wow, for lack of a better term, that sucks. This is what they came up with after more than a year of negotiating, and actually gave the pilots to vote? 2 steps forward and 3 steps back? They could have come up with all that in a day if the company wanted. Block or better is not something to be proud of in 08, to actually get paid for what you fly, wow ground breaking. Thanks JO! No pay increases, I can work for your 15 hours per day and only get paid for the amount I fly, I can also be juniored for regular pay and be required to check in 2 hours before my trip but BLOCK OR BETTER is all I wanted for Christmas, happy day.

Have you ever used PBS or even know what it is? If you did, you would know it is not a bad thing. PBS can greatly improve your QOL. Everyone I know in this industry who uses PBS loves it. In fact, I might go as far to say this is the top improvement in this TA.

You're DEAD WRONG about PBS.

It can be good or bad depending on who has control.

TWA actually had a well liked system (from what I've been told) and that was one of the few. In the hands of Mesa (with the work rules you have........er, actually DON'T have) with their bankrupt integrity, it'll be a nightmare.

My question is; What's this "check-in" deal all about ?

This sounds REALLY scary.

It's no big deal. You call or go online and check in as you would a passenger just so they know you know about your trip and you are going to show up for it. If you don't, they re-crew it. Sounds good for reserves....

What about having to self notify yourself IE doing the Crew Stalkers jobs when you check in 2 to 24 hours

NO WAY! I hope you are being sarcastic...chalk me up as one who uses it and wishes for the old line system back. It can be good with the right management/labor cooperation, but it is a tool for management to use to increase productivity of lines and better forecast labor costs.

So you're saying this is ONLY for reserve pilots ?

"Still Grounded",


Here is a previous post I made regarding the new Mesa contract. The second half is a review of the highlights. I hope it answers your questions.



http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...ne-pilots.html

Good Luck,

Winglet

How new and ignorant are you?

I know exactly what PBS is, and have seen it used by good friends.

Ask a United pilot how much they like PBS.

Ask an Air Whiskey guy why they have been fighting managements attempts to bring PBS in for years now.

Ask junior people at Republic how much they like PBS.

ALPA did a great job on you. You bought their dog and pony show hook line and sinker.

Clearly DENpilot as no idea what he's talking about.

You check in via phone or internet within 2 to 24 hours of the start of your trip. When you check in, scheduling can notify you of changes to your trip. Ex/addition of flying, roundtrips that have been dropped, or an entirely new pairing if they so desire.

The only glimmer of "good" in this is that we now are pay protected on our awarded trips, and are paid 200% on top of our scheduled flying for re-assignments.

DENpilot was attempting to say that it was good for reserves, in the sense that scheduling would know about uncovered flying sooner. What he failed to mention is that RSV guys will have to call in before each reserve day, and sit on hold to talk to a scheduler. Senior guys who are awarded day trips will have to call in before each trip as well.

DENpilot - you've delt with our crew trackers; what makes you think this will change how they operate? They will still call last minute, and not realize uncovered flying until no one but a ready reserve can fly the trip.

Except we only get the 200% pay IF there are no ready reserves and/or the flight is in danger of busting D+0 or A+14.

By this phrase I don't think we will ever see the 200%. THe company can just wait until the flight is going to be late before reassigning it to us or they just wait until they have used all their ready reserves. How many ready reserves are thecompany required to have available? Zero.

I see this as a concession.

Was the email today regarding the displacement award being done by the end of the week and the first training event being started in January the first effect of the TA?

Kind of convenient now that the company knows it will get PBS the displacents start happening. Hmmmmm who was it that said PBS will require more not less pilots?

heck, ask a senior Republic guy. i'm flying with a senior (top 10%) captain who needs to drop a day trip and can't.

pbs only works correct if its set right. and if the company's pulling the strings, it isn't

That's why this (PBS) is so desireable to the managers of airlines. It allows THEM more flexibility and thus they can operate with less pilots.

Good for them........not so good for pilots. In the hands of a company like Mesa, the results could be horrifying (and likely will be).

This check-in thing seems like a nice way of making demands of pilots during their off hours (without pay). If you call in on your time off with a cold beer in your hand (24 hours in advance) and they inform you they're junior manning you NOW for flying they need to cover, what'ya gonna do........call Ghostbusters ?

The rationalization of squandering this opportunity now because Mesa pilots will have a better opportunity of piggybacking other carriers with more leverage or guts during a "pattern bargaining" session in the future is flawed.

This agreement didn't offer Mesa pilots better odds in the future. What it did was actually made other carriers future negotiations more difficult, because the "box" of contractual boundaries that will be used by management got larger (i.e., worse and more in their favor). We all can rest assured that this piece of garbage will not only be highlighted in every regional airline bargaining room for the forseeable future, but will likely be on the wall behind the management side framed in gold.

Of course, when one sees ALPA national publicly claiming this as a victory, well........what can you say about a labor union that places self-serving facades used for the benefit of their own appearance vs. accepting the reality that everyone else clearly recognizes ?

Add these two together (ALPA national B.S. and a horrendeously bad agreement) and the future of regional flying is certain to be the extremely profitable sweatshop management wants it to be.

Read above.

Mesa got "brokeback mountained"!

Without reading all the fine print, it looks to me like the cons outweigh the pros?

Not necessarily. Do you remember that game we all played in elementary school called "telephone?" Where we get in a circle and tell a story, and by the time it gets back to the first person it's completely and utterly destroyed? Well - this is what I think is going on around here.

I wish we could have gotten a lot more, but I'm satisfied with this for right now. I understand both sides of negotiations and I understand why this is a good move for us. We could debate this all day and night, but at the end of it, it wouldn't make anyone more wrong or right for the way they voted, and we all know none of us on this board would change our mind about this ordeal (and even if we did we wouldn't admit it)! lol

I respect the folks that voted (whatever their choice was), and I'm very disappointed in those that did NOT vote. I think it's extremely childish how I've been reading about some threats of denied jumpseats and other such behavior. No one should be punished for voting a certain way. That's completely unnecessary.

I know most of you that are open minded will be able to look back and say "Well, maybe they were right about something." Just have an ounce of faith. Just a smidgen. I realize there are a lot of hurt, ticked off and flat out angry pilots out there that have been beaten down and abused - but it's being worked on. Things are changing one small thing at a time, and it won't happen overnight - even if we did get the best contract the industry has ever seen. Winglet has made a few excellent posts recently, and I hope I get the pleasure of meeting him one day (I'm sure I already know him! haha).

I'd like to ask everyone to just chill out for a bit and relax. What's done is done, and whether or not we like it, this TA is here to stay - so lets try and make the best of it.

Making stickers that say "400" while I think is actually a neat idea, it's a terrible idea in another way, and will do the exact opposite of unifying the pilots - it will only further divide us.

Best wishes to all my fellow coworkers. I'm staying positive, and I have some hope for the future. I hope I can help spread some of that - I know we need it. And to those at other airlines that are mature enough to realize what is going on over here and not just bashing us, thank you for supporting us, it doesn't go unnoticed - and I appreciate knowing that there are still some sane people in this industry, even though I'm probably not one of them.

and 95% of the pro's Can be taken away with 60 or 90 days notice
yes its far fetched the company will take away PBS but they CAN if they want to

Best post I have read in a long time... it is over and done with. It is much more popular to condemn someone else for our own issues than support them. Maybe if everyone supported Mesa pilots instead of trying to isolate them... their vote and contract might have been different. Anyway, congrats on the contract... you are a great group of pilots and hang in there.

Everything that is linked to PBS is not so that the company wont take away PBS (they wont) it's so if the pilots don't like PBS and want to get rid of it the company takes back all the costs associated with the TA.

It seems the union thought it was important for us to get rid of PBS if we don't like it. However it is connected to all the good stuff so it is unlikely anybody will ge rid of it. The links to PBS are a pointless waste of ink.

It helps if you bid right too, I talk to a lot of guys that have no idea what they are doing when they bid and the complain about it later. I like the PBS, typically I get what I want with in reason.

Exactly, I know what I am talking about.

If there is someone you like to be paired with, PBS can help. Don't like to fly with someone? PBS helps that too. Want certain days off? PBS works with that too.