ERJ or CRJ?
 

This is just a random question...

I was wondering what airplane you would rather fly, the ERJ or CRJ? To me the ERJ seems so much nicer, I feel it is more quiet also, but is it a more complex a/c to learn compared the the CR? I ask this because I told a ATR pilot I wanted to be on the ERJ, and he said he'd be going to the CRJ cause he didn't want to mess with the "jungle jet" :confused:

As far as being more advanced, yes, the ERJ has a few more buttons than the CRJ to push. It has a radar that can map the terrain below, the plane is very smart and it makes it very easy for a low time guy to fly it, it even has a mouse the pilots can use to select points on the navigation display. The ERJ does have better performance than the CRJ but oddly it only has a cervice ceiling of 37k. Don't know what is more appealing flying a CRJ, it must be the traditional style yoke.:)

hmmmmm..... FADEC!

Well just my opinions being that Im a CRJ jock myself although my best bud from college wound up in the 145 so this is an often discussed topic between us and this is kinda what we have come up with between the two of us..... What I will say is it think minus the computer APU, and from what I have heard the HYD issues in terms of MX. The larger EMB's (170 and up) are better than the CRJ however the CRJ is kinda a low rider sitting on the ground which makes the preflight in the morning miserable having to crawl under and check the wheel wells in the morning on a cold wet day can be back breaking. Plus checking the aft equip bay while the apu's running is deafening even with ear plugs.... So that is a major advantage to the 170.... However the 145 doesn't have this advantage. Also the cabin ceiling height in the 145 is lower than in the CRJ so more bending down for tall guys like myself also having ridden in the back of both I will say the 145 is slightly less comfortable than the CRJ. The ERJ does climb slightly better however the CRJ cruises faster unless its a 700 or 900 which in that case those will out climb a 145 no problems.... All CRJ's are still FAA certified to FL 410 however since the FLG 3701 incident most companies operating the CRJ 200 have put a FL 370 restriction on it the 7's and 9's are still good up to 410 though. I had heard that there was rumor of raising the ceiling of the 145 to 410 however from what my college bud tells me he kinda doubts that the 145 would be able to climb to 410 all the time and I have yet to hear of any action being taken towards raising the 145's ceiling.....The 145 uses the old 120 brasilia windshield so the cockpit is noisy (you will still need your DC's) while the CRJ has a Challenger nose section so it's pretty quiet ( I use telex 750's with no problems myself or often abv FL180 dont even wear a headset) you can talk with out a headset across the cockpit no problems using a regualar conversational tone. The CRJ 200 doesn't have FADEC or Eng sinc. Kinda a pain but not too bad its like flying the old navajo or something.... Also the engines have to be started the old fashioned way as a result but that's easy enough to do. What I like about the CRJ is it is in a sense a pilots airplane... Anytime I want Im just two buttons away from raw data hand flying...... Also the cockpit is quiet and relative comfortable... Really after a year and a half of flying it so far I have enjoyed it and have no real regrets.

True, while the CRJ has no FADEC, the F-ull A-uthority part of the ERj's engines only becomes so when you tell it to. Kinda silly.

But its such an easy oral answer! Haha

They just updated our software that the engine wont over temp on startup.

Ok, this means absolutely nothing coming from someone who's still flying single engines, but I figured I'd tell you what I think. I have "flown" the Wilco CRJ-700 on MS FlightSim, but the product is kinda disappointing. I've also extensively read a CRJ systems website which has alot of good info. Got a nice cockpit training poster on my wall as well.

Heres what I think:

I LOVE the CRJ flightdeck. It seems to have a nice, clean, modern, yet traditional set up. The seats look very comfy, as do the yokes. I like the "needles" method for navigating. It gives the pilot the ability to have a variety of set ups on the nav display, yet still have a near full HSI, which can be switched at will between the FMS and both Nav freqs. But I think the ERJ has a similar set up.

But I really prefer the "more dedicated" displays on the CRJ. The ERJ has a single EICAS screen, so it then crams system synoptics and other things onto the bottom of the Nav displays. Yuck! I like the two EICAS screens on the CRJ. It's just gives you more room, so you don't have to "cram" information onto displays. You can have full synoptic pages displayed while not compromising the size of the nav map.

The autopilot looks to be simple to use, yet competant. But I assume both planes are like that.

Overall the CRJ is a bigger plane and probably more desireable from a "career at the regionals" standpoint. It's size probably induces more "passenger confidence" as well.

I also prefer the traditional yokes and also the traditional thrust reverser levers. Overall, I just really like the way the CRJ flight deck is set up and I would prefer it over the ERJ. I hope I someday have to opportunity to fly it for real.

But any airplane is only as good as the COMPANY you're flying it for. It doesn't matter which is nicer if your company sucks. Thats why for me, it's SkyWest CRJ all the way!

These are just my thoughts as an outside observer.

ERJ has a MFD multi functional display. No need for dual EICAS. I sat in both and the center pedestal of the CRJ is large. In my opinion it takes up space that I can be stretching out. One bad thing on the ERJ, loud as hell when you are going fast. 320 at 10k, out of hand. If you are at FL350 and .73-.74 it is almost acceptable.

I've been on the ERJ awhile and the only two big gripes I have, first it is loud as hell inside and second the radar is garbage.
The service ceiling of 370 and VMO of 320 or Mach .78 were established to keep the plane way inside its envelope since Embraer has pushed the plane as an easy turboprop to jet transition plane. Embraer has flown the plane outside these limitations.
One thing Bombardier has done that I can't understand with the newer CRJ 700 and 900's is that they have put the FADECS out in the engine cowling area... correct me if I am wrong...Embraer put them in an avionics compartment in the rear of the plane which I think if there is a cat. fail in the eng I want them away from it.

True, but the systems display in the ERJ is crap. You have very little idea whats going on compared to the CRJ's systems pages.

I don't think the Airbus/777,747-400 has an issue with dual eicas.

If you had a catastrophic engine failure, what good would the Fadec's do you anyway?

Without getting into details, having flown both types of 50 seat regional junk...I would prefer to fly the ERJ.

Just one pilots opinion,

FO

I think the ERJ has a more quiet cabin than the CRJ. (Not that this matters, unless your deadheading or something) But the CRJ was alot louder in back I feel. Although when we became airborne the front row of the ERJ was very loud. But it doesn't sound like an engine, it just sounds like wind that is very loud. I'm Not sure how to discribe it. I guess there is just something about the ERJ that I like more. :cool:

May I ask why???

Yes the FADEC's are in the aft electronics bay.

I think its nice riding in the erj jumpseating you can get your own "row." Hmm but first class is better.

Having flown both, I really enjoy the ERJ. Climb performance is much better than the CRJ and the ERJ is very user friendly! Both of these planes are very nice though and a treat to fly! Hey, could someone tell me why it says "new hire" under my name? how can I change this? I am new to the forum. thanks!

Has to do with the amount of posts you have.

Another guy summed it up best on another board when this question came up about which is a better plane to fly. It doesn't really matter, they both pay crap.

ERRJ....mostly for the automation and the creature comforts (closet for coats and luggage, flight bag is easier to access, side windows open, more space outboard of the pilot seats for in flight porn storage)

FO

I never flew the ERJ, but the CRJ 200 is a piece of crap. It climbs like a sick dog above the mid 20s. Thinking of going to FL410? Fuhgiddaboutit! No FADEC. You have to set the power like in a turboprop. The radar isn't very good. The passengers have to be midgets to see out the window. And to top it off, it lands faster than a fricking 757.

On the other hand, I now fly the CRJ 700 and most of the problems have been fixed. Slats allow slower approach speeds and got rid of the "lawn dart" pitch attitude. Better radar with individual controls for each pilot. Much better power. You can keep 1000 fpm up into the high 30s if you plan well. I havn't been to 410, but I have seen 390. RVSM cruise speed limitation is 0.83 and sometime requires you to pull the power back. Plus there are two FAs and two lavs, so the captain and FO don't have to share. ;)

Some problems are common to both airplanes. No VNAV (at least not at ASA). There is a lot of noise when you are faster than 320 KIAS. The coat closets are big enough for one coat, not two. The hole for the flight bags is not big enough for my nice DoJet bag. No flight deck storage for crew bags at all (although the FAs have a cubby in the galley for their bags).

As far as the newer 170/190 EMB's, the MFD displays are really nice. It shows you exactly what is going on for each system pulled up. Auto-thrust and VNAV are great, as well as the Honeywell 2000. Seats still suck on the Embraer though.

"Plus there are two FAs and two lavs, so the captain and FO don't have to share. "

I suppose that's always a GOOD thing.

Don't worry, the 135/145 model has lousy flight case storage as well. To top it off, there is not much room next to you to keep your plates, ect. Although the EMB has more room to stretch out than the DoJet when you are seated, you can't stand up like the 328 and getting in and out is a pain.

There isn't much chart space in the CRJ either. I usually sit my Jepps on top of my flight bag or on the tiny flat space next to the O2 mask.

I don't know that there is a regional airliner that is easy to get in and out of.

True, but I thought the DoJet was less hassle in this department.

As I was boarding a Chataqua ERJ the other day and glanced into the flight deck i noticed the pilot seats. They really did seem really uncomfortable. It seemed like the leather on it was on the verge of needing tape to hold it together. That alone seems like a reason to choose the CRJ, I would think the seat should be one of the most important features of a plane since you have to sit in it for several hours straight.

The only reason to choose one over the other is PAY and QUALITY OF LIFE! Who cares what shape the seats are in? Having flown both the CRJ-200 and ERJ, I thought the CRJ seats were much less comfortable than the ERJ. The CRJ has a little more lateral room due to the wider fuselage but a lot of that room gets eaten up by the pool table-sized pedastal on the thing. As far as flying goes, the ERJ is much more automated and has a lot better performance (at least over the CRJ-200). On the other hand, the CRJ is quieter in the cockpit.

I'd fly a C-172 if it paid over $100,000/yr. Who cares what it is as long as it pays.

Show me the $$$!

Oh, I don't know if it has already been mentioned, but the FD/AP on the ERJ sucks on approaches! So bad that at one time there was a limit on its use below (if I remember correctly) 1000 ft on an ILS. That has since been lifted, but the frig'n thing still sucks.

Other than that, the ole ERJ is a decent plane for a micromachine.

It was just on the FOs side that you couldn't use the AP below 1000'. You could use the FD. It has since been changed, but the flight director still sucks really bad. It sure can't handle a cross wind on final.

Can't use the autopilot below 1000ft?? Forget it I'm going to the CR, all I wanna do is flare! ahah just kidding...:D

Seriously though, pay is a big issue, but the ERJ/CRJ both pay the same.(small differences) I also wasn't looking for anything to do with money here for a minute. I just wanted to know what people thought of each A/C. I figured I'd leave out money right now since that is a depressing topic in the airlines right now.

I'm suprised I didn't have any post like "ahhh screw the ERJ/CRJ, fly the dash 8 or saab" ;)

Right, the AP, but the FD made the AP fly like a wounded bird. I remember one guy I flew with that was new to the plane and I had warned him about the crapy AP/FD. The weather was down to mins and he elected to hand fly it on the FD. To his dismay he followed that thing as if it where taking him to the Promised Land. At about 400' that thing was tilting wildly left and right, sending him WAY off of the loc. MISSED APPROACH TIME and he learned a lesson of not always trusting that darn FD. Just because it’s SUPPOSED to tell you or the aircraft where to go, doesn't mean it’s doing its job. ALWAYS monitor your raw data, no matter how automated your craft is (rant mode off). Also, not trying to get into a pi$$ing match here, but wasn't it restricted to 1000' on the left side and 1500' on the right? Maybe that was just a company imposed restriction (1500/1000) that we had at my old company. I can't remember.

Another reason why I almost always hand flew the bird once vectored onto the approach. Plus, I liked to keep my head out of my a$$ by keeping my "flying skills" up to date.

The JetStream. It's a piece of sh!te, but it will make you a real pilot.

The ATR 72-212A wasn't bad. Pretty quiet and had the poor man's auto throttles.

Heard the ATR is very heavy, feels like a 747 when you're landing it.

At the company I work for the CA could always leave the autopilot on until 200', but the FOs had to turn off the AP at 1,000'. I'm sure each company has their own rules. None the less the AP/FD isn't very good. Hit direct somewhere at FL370 and watch the AP crank in 30 degrees of bank left when it should go right than crank in 30 degrees of bank back to the right. Makes a lot of since. It's always nice when you're saying "no it's the other way!"

I don't know about heavy or 747 like, but yes it was a little sluggish in maneuvering. Its a relatively large aircraft compared to its control surfaces. Maybe it was the big wing on it that made it feel that way, but I’m not really sure why.

I only had about 400 hours in it, but I liked it. It had two FAs also, Cranky and Dopey. I would always hang out with Dopey, she didn't know any better
.:D

Yea well as long as dopey is of age!:D

Dumb CRJ question:

I know the CRJ-200 does not have a FADEC, but then what is the Electronic Engine Control (EEC)? According to a CRJ systems website, above 79% N1 the engines are in Electronic mode, with the EEC sync'ing the engines if the throttles are close together, etc. It also says that it adjusts the idle speed to always get the same idle thrust. How does that kind of stuff differ from a FADEC?

And what do the "Engine Control" switched behind the throttles for?

The 200 has mechanical linkages from thrust levers to fuel control system,

Below 79% N2, the thrust levers control fuel directly and manually.

Above 79% N2, if the EEC is engaged, the EEC is SUPPOSED to fine-tune fuel flow as you climb out and maintain N1. I have never observed it keeping the fans synched or maintaining the set N1, always seems that you have to make continous manual adjustments. The mechanical linkage overides the EEC. The EEC uses the T2C probe in the engine inlet to detemine inlet air density.


The 700/900 have FADEC, the thrust lever has no mechanical linkage, it's basically an electrical switch. The FADEC observes the position of the thrust levers and maintains the optimal N1 for the flight conditions. It also synchs the N1's. The FADEC levers have detents...cruise, climb, TO/GA...you put it there and the computer does the rest.

The engine control switches :
Arm & test the APR
Test the VIB (Maintenance)
Arm the EEC.

How crappy is "crappy pay"? What IS the pay difference between, say ERJ 145 and CRJ?

It would depend on the airline, but pay is USUALLY based on seating capacity...since the CRJ 100/200 and the ERJ-145 all have 50 seats, they should pay the same.

I would estimate first year FO on a 50 seat RJ would be $15-22K.

After probation, $28-35K

4 year Captain pay, $50-65K

Variable depending on which airline and how much you fly.