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-   -   How much is too much? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/34948-how-much-too-much.html)

whtever 12-24-2008 11:37 AM

How much is too much?
 
Another useless program from Colgan management, Aircraft Appearance Program. It is good in theory and probably needed, but am I wrong in thinking this won't change anything? Along this line, do we not deserve increase in pay with more workload? A random assignment from management should lead to a discussion of compensation. As Captains, I agree there is higher degree of responsibility, as it should be, but when is enough enough? Should pay not parallel repsonsibilty/ workload? When is the time to actually fly the airplane safely, our main duty? I hope the flying doesn't interupt our paperwork! Besides, the current procedures and forms are ineffective at best. Forms are consitently lost and do not make their way to management anyway. If they are received without completing more than once, nothing is done to remedy the problem anyway. The disconnected communication at Colgan does not allow for successful implementation of policies like these. During my phone conversation explaining why I was 5 minutes late out of the block after an aircraft swap with a scheduled 20 minute turn, is the ever increasing paperwork a viable excuse? I hope this isn't seen as whining, just a thought provoking post. I realize this is probably not comapny specific, but what's next for us as pilots?

captain152 12-24-2008 12:02 PM


Originally Posted by whtever (Post 524939)
Another useless program from Colgan management, Aircraft Appearance Program. It is good in theory and probably needed, but am I wrong in thinking this won't change anything? Along this line, do we not deserve increase in pay with more workload? A random assignment from management should lead to a discussion of compensation. As Captains, I agree there is higher degree of responsibility, as it should be, but when is enough enough? Should pay not parallel repsonsibilty/ workload? When is the time to actually fly the airplane safely, our main duty? I hope the flying doesn't interupt our paperwork! Besides, the current procedures and forms are ineffective at best. Forms are consitently lost and do not make their way to management anyway. If they are received without completing more than once, nothing is done to remedy the problem anyway. The disconnected communication at Colgan does not allow for successful implementation of policies like these. During my phone conversation explaining why I was 5 minutes late out of the block after an aircraft swap with a scheduled 20 minute turn, is the ever increasing paperwork a viable excuse? I hope this isn't seen as whining, just a thought provoking post. I realize this is probably not comapny specific, but what's next for us as pilots?

I completely agree. If management is going to keep tacking on more paperwork for us to do and complete, they're going to have to compensate us somehow sooner or later. I think it's complete BS that they are telling us that if they don't get our "winter ops quiz" we will be removed from duty until it is completed. Tell me one thing though ... at what point can they remove us from duty for something we don't complete that they are not paying us for? It's not like we missed a flight or anything, that I could definitely understand. It's completely ridiculous sometimes what they say and tell us about our "duties" and how we can be penalized ...

Speaking of this Aircraft Appearance Program ... I think if some of us were completely honest with this this we might actually end up getting fired for what we say anyway. Some of those planes are just nasty and you know that MX has better things to do than fix the upholstery on an aircraft because we deemed it unacceptable by our standards!

Yet another ridiculous program put in place by our wonderful company :rolleyes:

The Juice 12-24-2008 01:10 PM

I will not do it! period

The Juice 12-24-2008 01:15 PM


Originally Posted by captain152 (Post 524949)
I completely agree. If management is going to keep tacking on more paperwork for us to do and complete, they're going to have to compensate us somehow sooner or later. I think it's complete BS that they are telling us that if they don't get our "winter ops quiz" we will be removed from duty until it is completed. Tell me one thing though ... at what point can they remove us from duty for something we don't complete that they are not paying us for? It's not like we missed a flight or anything, that I could definitely understand. It's completely ridiculous sometimes what they say and tell us about our "duties" and how we can be penalized ...

Speaking of this Aircraft Appearance Program ... I think if some of us were completely honest with this this we might actually end up getting fired for what we say anyway. Some of those planes are just nasty and you know that MX has better things to do than fix the upholstery on an aircraft because we deemed it unacceptable by our standards!

Yet another ridiculous program put in place by our wonderful company :rolleyes:

I love reading 2 paragraphs of you upset and complaining, of which I agree. I just laugh because at the end I read you signature in which you say "hard to complain"...with all evidence to the contrary. ;)

captain152 12-24-2008 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by The Juice (Post 524977)
I love reading 2 paragraphs of you upset and complaining, of which I agree. I just laugh because at the end I read you signature in which you say "hard to complain"...with all evidence to the contrary. ;)

LOL ... yeah I can see how that's funny. I love getting paid to do what I love, but it's just ridiculous sometimes what the company imposes on us to do, when to do it, how to do it, and the reprimands for not doing it the way they want it done. So, yeah, it's hard to complain, sure, but it certainly can be done!

captain152 12-24-2008 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by The Juice (Post 524974)
I will not do it! period

WAY TO STAND STRONG!! ;)

kalyx522 12-24-2008 08:46 PM

I've really been out of the loop on what's going on at work... what is this new appearance program? also, did bill specifically say we will be removed from duty if the winter ops homework isnt completed? i looked for memos discussing either at our website and didnt see anything.

captain152 12-25-2008 05:57 AM


Originally Posted by kalyx522 (Post 525159)
I've really been out of the loop on what's going on at work... what is this new appearance program? also, did bill specifically say we will be removed from duty if the winter ops homework isnt completed? i looked for memos discussing either at our website and didnt see anything.

He sent a memo out on crewtrac about the ops quiz stating those exact words ... I deleted it because it was a bunch of BS and honestly didn't care if my number was on it. I know that I turned mine in during training and if they lost it that's their problem, not mine.

I got an email from Brian Klipp about the appearance program, so I don't know if you can get it anywhere else yet. If you want, you can PM me with your email address and I'll forward you the email.

Merry Christmas!!

FlyJSH 12-25-2008 03:48 PM

From an aircraft's mx log:

Prop does not hold RPM in flight -- Cannot be duplicated on ground RTS
Instrument backlighting failed -- MEL number ..... RTS
Pressurization inop -- MEL number ...... RTS
Right Pack inop -- MEL number .... RTS
Seat 10A torn -- All cushions removed and replaced with serviceable units. Extended MELs for Backlighting, Pressurization, and Pac. RTS

mooney 12-25-2008 04:08 PM

if this "aircraft appearance survey" is what I think it is, it is a complete waste of time and only BS busy work for you. Over here at 9e, management DOES NOT CARE what kind of pigpen condition the aiplanes are in, you WILL NOT wait for groomers if it will delay the flight. I can't count the number of times I've been called on my day off by Pinnacle management to explain why we were 5 minutes late because I wouldn't board the aircraft in the pigpen condition it was in. We actually just got a memo last week saying we are NOT to delay boarding for aircraft cleaning/grooming.

As usual, on time bonus checks for management at the expense of livable conditions for the pax/crew.


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