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...I'm assuming you are saying Eagle's mins if/when they start to hire again will be 1500tt?
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Originally Posted by Pontius Pilot
(Post 525996)
If you think I'm being negative, then you're a fool...plain and simple. I'm just putting the facts here. If you can't bother to read what I say, then don't bother to comment on what I say. If you need a refresher I said I loved Eagle, loved flying, but didn't love the lifestyle. I love my wife and family and like being home most days out of the week and for those that do, this is a poor job choice.
Or do you think I'm being negative about the job outlook? Well, sir, that is simply the truth. It does not look good - and nobody can tell you for sure whats going to happen from day to day. That is fact. Oil could drop to $20 a barrel tomorrow, the economy could turn a corner next week and passenger loads could increase by 150% in January - then you'd be called in from the pool most likely. But who can know such a thing? Nobody! You will have to wait until you're called in, whenever that may be. It won't happen a second sooner. Fat, dumb and happy??? After 9 months? Are you joking? Complaining? About what - the FACTS of this lifestyle! I don't know what kind of bills you have to pay, but I have many friends who are struggling to make ends meet, even with this super-sweet "minimum" paycheck you're talking about. I have friends who don't have enough money to eat. I have friends who can hardly afford their $450 rent on a place with a car included - they get to chose between having benefits or a place to live (the insurance is not cheap). The first year is rough...the second year improves if you're on one of the jets (ATR increases by a whole $2 an hour 2nd year). Arguably, its probably better than most instructing jobs...but you also have more expenses than your instructing job. Food when you're on long trips, crash pad, transportation, etc. It adds up rather quickly. Stepping stone to what? Most things you want to step into are going to require turbine PIC time. I have flown with Captains who have taken 8 years to get where they are so they could get some precious PIC time and move on. Eagle was their stepping stone too. Then some of them got kicked back to FO in the last few months. Apparently there are a bunch of people out there that don't want to hear the truth. They are going to continue to think this job is nothing but sunshine and daisies and fluffy little kittens...they aren't going to listen to the voice of reason. Anybody in this profession who tries and explain that its not all fun and games is labeled as "bitter" or "negative". Why, I must be out of my mind to find things to be unhappy with!!! I get paid to fly! Geez, I should be kissing Peter Bowler's backside for the wonderful opportunity I've been given. You simply don't want to hear the truth. You want to look at this job with your rose tinted optimism-enhanced glasses. You think you just get paid to fly... ...well, don't forget the paperwork, the politics, the BS, the union dues, sitting in the ready reserve room doing nothing going out of your mind with boredom 8 hours a day for a month, spending Christmas eve and day stuck in a hotel room in Witchita Falls, getting yelled at by angry passengers, gate agents with a god complex, evil captains, sitting more reserve, more paperwork, more BS, more politics. All of this assuming you make it through training. If only it were just showing up and flying the plane...but there is much more to it than that. The flying part is just a by-line in the whole ordeal. Ever notice you never see thread upon thread with nothing but postive happiness in it??? That's because, in the end, this is a job - a job like all others, that can become very frustrating when you see how powerless you are to effect any change at all. If it were so awesome and wonderful the posts would often reflect that. Yes, it can be a great wonderful happy job - but don't think that it always is. You learn to be a chameleon and a politican and a tactician, or you end up on the street. Just flying would be a relief. And you do little true flying. Babysitting the Autopilot, FMS and GPS and changing ACARS paper is more like it. You do what the company tells you, when the company tells you, how the company tells you. You have the freedom to chose your wake-up call in the morning. Get your facts first, then distort them as you please. I have had contact with hundreds of people in this industry. Very few of them would tell you different. I have seen the smiles wiped off at least 100 faces. Yours won't be any different. Read Ernest Gann's "Fate is the Hunter", at least the first 100 pages. Even though it took place in the 1930s, I can't believe how similar his experience was. Telling you like it is from one viewpoint does not make a person 'negative', 'bitter'. Having an airline job does not make one 'fat, dumb and happy'. Preconceived notions about the job are usually wrong. I don't know why I try and help people understand both sides of the story. After reading that I think we can easily say that doctors and lawyers are much better off than a regional airline pilot. Take my $20 bill as a TIP and buy something nice for your wife. |
Originally Posted by Pontius Pilot
(Post 525996)
If you think I'm being negative, then you're a fool...plain and simple. I'm just putting the facts here. If you can't bother to read what I say, then don't bother to comment on what I say. If you need a refresher I said I loved Eagle, loved flying, but didn't love the lifestyle. I love my wife and family and like being home most days out of the week and for those that do, this is a poor job choice.
Or do you think I'm being negative about the job outlook? Well, sir, that is simply the truth. It does not look good - and nobody can tell you for sure whats going to happen from day to day. That is fact. Oil could drop to $20 a barrel tomorrow, the economy could turn a corner next week and passenger loads could increase by 150% in January - then you'd be called in from the pool most likely. But who can know such a thing? Nobody! You will have to wait until you're called in, whenever that may be. It won't happen a second sooner. Fat, dumb and happy??? After 9 months? Are you joking? Complaining? About what - the FACTS of this lifestyle! I don't know what kind of bills you have to pay, but I have many friends who are struggling to make ends meet, even with this super-sweet "minimum" paycheck you're talking about. I have friends who don't have enough money to eat. I have friends who can hardly afford their $450 rent on a place with a car included - they get to chose between having benefits or a place to live (the insurance is not cheap). The first year is rough...the second year improves if you're on one of the jets (ATR increases by a whole $2 an hour 2nd year). Arguably, its probably better than most instructing jobs...but you also have more expenses than your instructing job. Food when you're on long trips, crash pad, transportation, etc. It adds up rather quickly. Stepping stone to what? Most things you want to step into are going to require turbine PIC time. I have flown with Captains who have taken 8 years to get where they are so they could get some precious PIC time and move on. Eagle was their stepping stone too. Then some of them got kicked back to FO in the last few months. Apparently there are a bunch of people out there that don't want to hear the truth. They are going to continue to think this job is nothing but sunshine and daisies and fluffy little kittens...they aren't going to listen to the voice of reason. Anybody in this profession who tries and explain that its not all fun and games is labeled as "bitter" or "negative". Why, I must be out of my mind to find things to be unhappy with!!! I get paid to fly! Geez, I should be kissing Peter Bowler's backside for the wonderful opportunity I've been given. You simply don't want to hear the truth. You want to look at this job with your rose tinted optimism-enhanced glasses. You think you just get paid to fly... ...well, don't forget the paperwork, the politics, the BS, the union dues, sitting in the ready reserve room doing nothing going out of your mind with boredom 8 hours a day for a month, spending Christmas eve and day stuck in a hotel room in Witchita Falls, getting yelled at by angry passengers, gate agents with a god complex, evil captains, sitting more reserve, more paperwork, more BS, more politics. All of this assuming you make it through training. If only it were just showing up and flying the plane...but there is much more to it than that. The flying part is just a by-line in the whole ordeal. Ever notice you never see thread upon thread with nothing but postive happiness in it??? That's because, in the end, this is a job - a job like all others, that can become very frustrating when you see how powerless you are to effect any change at all. If it were so awesome and wonderful the posts would often reflect that. Yes, it can be a great wonderful happy job - but don't think that it always is. You learn to be a chameleon and a politican and a tactician, or you end up on the street. Just flying would be a relief. And you do little true flying. Babysitting the Autopilot, FMS and GPS and changing ACARS paper is more like it. You do what the company tells you, when the company tells you, how the company tells you. You have the freedom to chose your wake-up call in the morning. Get your facts first, then distort them as you please. I have had contact with hundreds of people in this industry. Very few of them would tell you different. I have seen the smiles wiped off at least 100 faces. Yours won't be any different. Read Ernest Gann's "Fate is the Hunter", at least the first 100 pages. Even though it took place in the 1930s, I can't believe how similar his experience was. Telling you like it is from one viewpoint does not make a person 'negative', 'bitter'. Having an airline job does not make one 'fat, dumb and happy'. Preconceived notions about the job are usually wrong. I don't know why I try and help people understand both sides of the story. |
Originally Posted by Pontius Pilot
(Post 525996)
If you think I'm being negative, then you're a fool...plain and simple. I'm just putting the facts here. If you can't bother to read what I say, then don't bother to comment on what I say. If you need a refresher I said I loved Eagle, loved flying, but didn't love the lifestyle. I love my wife and family and like being home most days out of the week and for those that do, this is a poor job choice.
Or do you think I'm being negative about the job outlook? Well, sir, that is simply the truth. It does not look good - and nobody can tell you for sure whats going to happen from day to day. That is fact. Oil could drop to $20 a barrel tomorrow, the economy could turn a corner next week and passenger loads could increase by 150% in January - then you'd be called in from the pool most likely. But who can know such a thing? Nobody! You will have to wait until you're called in, whenever that may be. It won't happen a second sooner. Fat, dumb and happy??? After 9 months? Are you joking? Complaining? About what - the FACTS of this lifestyle! I don't know what kind of bills you have to pay, but I have many friends who are struggling to make ends meet, even with this super-sweet "minimum" paycheck you're talking about. I have friends who don't have enough money to eat. I have friends who can hardly afford their $450 rent on a place with a car included - they get to chose between having benefits or a place to live (the insurance is not cheap). The first year is rough...the second year improves if you're on one of the jets (ATR increases by a whole $2 an hour 2nd year). Arguably, its probably better than most instructing jobs...but you also have more expenses than your instructing job. Food when you're on long trips, crash pad, transportation, etc. It adds up rather quickly. Stepping stone to what? Most things you want to step into are going to require turbine PIC time. I have flown with Captains who have taken 8 years to get where they are so they could get some precious PIC time and move on. Eagle was their stepping stone too. Then some of them got kicked back to FO in the last few months. Apparently there are a bunch of people out there that don't want to hear the truth. They are going to continue to think this job is nothing but sunshine and daisies and fluffy little kittens...they aren't going to listen to the voice of reason. Anybody in this profession who tries and explain that its not all fun and games is labeled as "bitter" or "negative". Why, I must be out of my mind to find things to be unhappy with!!! I get paid to fly! Geez, I should be kissing Peter Bowler's backside for the wonderful opportunity I've been given. You simply don't want to hear the truth. You want to look at this job with your rose tinted optimism-enhanced glasses. You think you just get paid to fly... ...well, don't forget the paperwork, the politics, the BS, the union dues, sitting in the ready reserve room doing nothing going out of your mind with boredom 8 hours a day for a month, spending Christmas eve and day stuck in a hotel room in Witchita Falls, getting yelled at by angry passengers, gate agents with a god complex, evil captains, sitting more reserve, more paperwork, more BS, more politics. All of this assuming you make it through training. If only it were just showing up and flying the plane...but there is much more to it than that. The flying part is just a by-line in the whole ordeal. Ever notice you never see thread upon thread with nothing but postive happiness in it??? That's because, in the end, this is a job - a job like all others, that can become very frustrating when you see how powerless you are to effect any change at all. If it were so awesome and wonderful the posts would often reflect that. Yes, it can be a great wonderful happy job - but don't think that it always is. You learn to be a chameleon and a politican and a tactician, or you end up on the street. Just flying would be a relief. And you do little true flying. Babysitting the Autopilot, FMS and GPS and changing ACARS paper is more like it. You do what the company tells you, when the company tells you, how the company tells you. You have the freedom to chose your wake-up call in the morning. Get your facts first, then distort them as you please. I have had contact with hundreds of people in this industry. Very few of them would tell you different. I have seen the smiles wiped off at least 100 faces. Yours won't be any different. Read Ernest Gann's "Fate is the Hunter", at least the first 100 pages. Even though it took place in the 1930s, I can't believe how similar his experience was. Telling you like it is from one viewpoint does not make a person 'negative', 'bitter'. Having an airline job does not make one 'fat, dumb and happy'. Preconceived notions about the job are usually wrong. I don't know why I try and help people understand both sides of the story. Very very well said. Hopefully, some will learn from it before getting too deeply into it. There are those of us that suffer from the curse of having the disease of being addicted to airplanes, and for us, there really isn't any other choice... if a person is getting into this for ANY other reason than suffering from the curse, then they are making a mistake. |
Originally Posted by etflies
(Post 526694)
...I'm assuming you are saying Eagle's mins if/when they start to hire again will be 1500tt?
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and not if. when
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2000 hours to get in Eagle? What a joke .... would then have to wait another 7 years to get upgraded, if that happens. Who do they think their fooling?
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They're not fooling anyone. If they're the only ones hiring they will have plenty of applicants. They don't care if they leave after a year or so because the investment will have been repaid. Once upon a time you couldn't buy a job at Eagle without prior 135/121 experience and at least 1000 multi.
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Originally Posted by Pontius Pilot
(Post 526368)
I am exploring. Its not an easy decision to make, to walk away from this.
It does get better with seniority, there's absolutely no doubt about that. I'm about halfway up the DFE list and able to hold 2-day back to backs. I even did a part time line and have been off (w/o pay mind you, which was a mistake, but I needed the break) since 12/12 and am not dreading getting back to work. With 2-day trips, 5th year pay and the occasional Auto Trip Trade for schedule enhancement the job is fair. I also have pretty much resigned myself to no longer trying to move "up" the ladder, so PIC time isn't very important to me. Also, I'm here because I've chosen to be; I could be "better (?)" places but have chosen family and QOL over my career. We aren't moving from DFW and I'm not commuting for this business, so Eagle's about as good as it gets for me right now airline-wise. All that combines to make it barely tolerable. The real problem is that the model is broken. Regionals were set up (from a pilot's standpoint) as a 2-3 year stepping stone to the cushy majors. Now the movement is at a standstill; the seniority climb to reasonable QOL and ultimately a reasonable QOL in the left seat is too slow, the pay is very sorry for years and years, and the brass ring of the majors is quite tarnished and uncertain. So, IMO, you are smart to consider getting out, especially if you've already realized that it sucks - it takes most of us years to figure that out!:rolleyes: But if you can develop something on the side and hang in there for a while it will get better again once folks start hitting 65 in 4 years. Anyway, good luck to you! |
I think it's safe to say most regionals will have much higher minimums when they start hiring again. 2006-7 was a statistical anomaly. Anybody who thinks they belong in a jet at less than 700 hours is kidding themselves and I speak from experience.
Another issue is a number of contracts coming up. Regionals aren't the stepping stones they once were and those guys that waited 7 years to upgrade, are planning on staying put or remember how tough it was to make it on first year pay are going to demand better. Mesa just made it harder for the rest of us (again) but with all the qualified pilots on the street it's a lot harder to keep the bar low and attract people that are going to stick around. |
1000tt seems reasonable, especially in today's market. I can understand 1500tt too and for anybody who is a CFI, or has a current flying job, that shouldn't be too hard to reach in a reasonable time frame. Any ideas what kind of multi time they might be looking for?
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Originally Posted by swaayze
(Post 527493)
They're not fooling anyone. If they're the only ones hiring they will have plenty of applicants. They don't care if they leave after a year or so because the investment will have been repaid. Once upon a time you couldn't buy a job at Eagle without prior 135/121 experience and at least 1000 multi.
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Do they know anything we don't know? Why ATR and CRJ only? No ERJ?
Aeroservice Career Fair • American Eagle Hiring ATR and CRJ First Officers and Flight Attendants Hosted by Aeroservice Aviation Center and www.bestaviation.net Miami, Florida • Saturday • January 17, 2009 |
people are really convinced that we should see movement soon...i really don't think so...i think it'll be more towards the end of this year...
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Originally Posted by RJSD
(Post 529484)
Do they know anything we don't know? Why ATR and CRJ only? No ERJ?
Aeroservice Career Fair • American Eagle Hiring ATR and CRJ First Officers and Flight Attendants Hosted by Aeroservice Aviation Center and www.bestaviation.net Miami, Florida • Saturday • January 17, 2009 Maybe we're really fat on ERJ guys. I don't see us hiring though. I don't think this is the first career fair that AE has gone to in the last few months. We'll know from the poolies first if they get called in. I don't know why they'd waste money going to these things if we weren't hiring though. I don't pretend to understand anything the airlines do in regards to 'business decisions'. |
Originally Posted by RJSD
(Post 529484)
Do they know anything we don't know? Why ATR and CRJ only? No ERJ?
Aeroservice Career Fair • American Eagle Hiring ATR and CRJ First Officers and Flight Attendants Hosted by Aeroservice Aviation Center and www.bestaviation.net Miami, Florida • Saturday • January 17, 2009 But as far as this thread goes I hope that the pool still exists. We shall see... |
Originally Posted by RJSD
(Post 529484)
Do they know anything we don't know? Why ATR and CRJ only? No ERJ?
Aeroservice Career Fair • American Eagle Hiring ATR and CRJ First Officers and Flight Attendants Hosted by Aeroservice Aviation Center and www.bestaviation.net Miami, Florida • Saturday • January 17, 2009 |
Originally Posted by WmuGrad07
(Post 529652)
For some reason I don't think anything is going to come of this. I like thinking about having a job with benefits and a normal paycheck unlike I have right now. However not having heard anything positive in quite some time just like this thread has been talking about leaves me doubtful.
But as far as this thread goes I hope that the pool still exists. We shall see... |
message deleted
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interview
Does anyone know if Eagle is doing interview on site? I am planning to go to the job fair for fun.
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Originally Posted by stillageek
(Post 529667)
Eagle is getting 5 ATRs from ASA.
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The 5 ATRs from ASA is the new "we're getting 25 more CRJs" rumor. Love it! I got to hear that CRJ rumor for 4 years and it never happened.
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Originally Posted by stillageek
(Post 529667)
Eagle is getting 5 ATRs from ASA.
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Why would we buy 5 more ATRs when we just sold all of them to a leasing company??? I also doubt we'd be buying old ones, they're looking to modernize the prop fleet if at all possible. So I think that is just the new Kool-Aid rumor floating around.
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Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
(Post 529908)
Lay that crack pipe down would ya..?
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Originally Posted by Pontius Pilot
(Post 529935)
Why would we buy 5 more ATRs when we just sold all of them to a leasing company??? I also doubt we'd be buying old ones, they're looking to modernize the prop fleet if at all possible. So I think that is just the new Kool-Aid rumor floating around.
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Originally Posted by stillageek
(Post 529943)
I don't post much, only when I have something credible and worthwhile to share. Do you work for American Eagle? AMR? Aerospatiale? ASA? and have information that American Eagle is surely not getting additional aircraft?
ASA's old ATR's. As someone else mention,They are looking at the 600's at this time.Thats straight from the "horse mouth".... |
Originally Posted by stillageek
(Post 529946)
AMR/American Eagle could acquire additional ATR's and do the same sell/lease back they did with the current ATR's. A very common transaction done for various reasons. Flying ERJs DFW to ACT only makes sense because there are not enough ATR's in DFW to fly that route. Same goes for DFW to GGG and DFW to TYR
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Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
(Post 529994)
Your credibility is zero to none. I can assure you that AMR is NOT looking to buy
ASA's old ATR's. As someone else mention,They are looking at the 600's at this time.Thats straight from the "horse mouth".... |
Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
(Post 529997)
Wrong again. Those airports that you mention ACT,TYR,GGG aren't approved at this time, for air carriers(there is an x amount of seats) seaters or more scheduled operations.Hence the 64 seater ATR cant fly into those mention yet.
I just don't see Eagle buying old ATRs when they were planning on buying new. Selling the current ATRs gives Eagle liquidity and the ability to pursue newer props, modernize the fleet. Because we owned them so long and they were (presumably) paid off, a profit could be realized on them - this would not be the case buying ASA's ATRs. |
Originally Posted by stillageek
(Post 530008)
You stated I am not credible. Please provide documentation that what you stated is credible. Otherwise your words are just as worthless as you stated mine are. Quoting what you heard on a forum is the least credible source I can think of....except what the baristas at Starbucks in the airport have to say....they know everything.
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Originally Posted by Pontius Pilot
(Post 525996)
Apparently there are a bunch of people out there that don't want to hear the truth. They are going to continue to think this job is nothing but sunshine and daisies and fluffy little kittens...they aren't going to listen to the voice of reason.
That's classic! Love it. :D So true, so true. |
I recently spoke with C.C. at a career fair. With regards to the individuals in the pool she said they will be the first ones contacted when hiring begins. She suggested staying current and to continue building time. Keeping your application on airlineapps.com up to date is also very important. When I asked about projected hiring dates she mentioned that it is possible they will hire this summer as early as July but that was just a guess which could go either way. Has anyone else heard anything different?
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That's pretty much the standard answer that has been floating around from Eagle and ALPA. I don't think anyone really knows to tell you the honest truth.
Some people will tell you we're way understaffed and others will say we aren't. It really all depends on how the downturn in passengers will affect the airline. If things turn around we will definitely need more people...but if we keep losing passengers its anyone's guess. I would say if things stay steady then Summer or Fall seems likely due to attrition. But again, it's really anybody's guess. The suggestion that you continue to build time and stay current is spot on. I would follow that advice. It isn't going to hurt - because when hiring starts again you're going to see higher minimums across the board - and there are lots of experienced people out there looking for jobs. So stay current and up to date. |
imbroke - yup as a poolie that's what i was told when I spoke to her a couple weeks ago. Good thing I have a job where I get a lot of hours...ill have doubled my hours since i was hired last april. So hopefully good news comes around the summer.
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I'm in the same boat as you Illinipilot. I have a good job with lots of hours (I doubled my hours since I was interviewed last year as well). I'm really in no hurry to start working for eagle (I do hope it is sooner than later though). I'm just glad that we will be considered first when hiring does start, hopefully that doesn't change and they decide to drain the pool.
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yeah its a little hope on the horizon, considering I am getting paid more now then I would/will at eagle. How many are in the pool right now you think?
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I wouldn't even have a good guess as to how many. I have heard speculation/rumors that there is between 40-60 but who knows for sure.
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I know that there were around 3 classes that were canceled (mine being the fist class, 26th). but out of those three how many ppl are on to better things? like Mesaba or, in the case of those ATA guys, went on to PVT jobs like Netjets or whatever?
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Yeah I was scheduled for the May 26th class as well. There were a few ATA guys that were at the interview with me. I'm sure they have found something better by now.
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