I was chatting with the very bottom guy on the active list right now and he cant wait for the hiring to resume. He is hitting the corners for the system now; SJU ATR, disp LAX EMB but later was told it was a typo and it really going to JFK EMB. Crazzzyy....

Anything that gets a person out of SJU ATR has got to be a blessing from God (unless of course they are a Puerto Rican and want to be ther). A lot of people have been getting bounced around like ping pong balls!

I know a few people from my RJ course that were suppose to start on the 26th haven't been flying since so that takes a few people out of the pool. I was talking to a few friends at eagle, he made it sound like I would get stuck in SJU or florida. Not too excited if that does happen. I'm still wondering if hiring is going to happen or not to begin with and who is going to get the calls first.

I'm not planning on anything with Eagle really, I'll just be doing something other than flight instructiing next winter. After getting burned once I don't like thinking of Eagle as in my plan till they call saying we're sending you down to dallas for training.

yeah I know a handful from the RJ course that have already gone other places, I'm not relying on eagle but it would be nice to get to the next step.

Yeah, you don't want to end up in SJU on the ATR. It may sound like a great place, but its crowded, expensive and dirty and it really tough. If you speak fluent Spanish and you enjoy the 3rd world country type setting, then it can be paradise. I, and a big number of the people I know that got sent down there, hated it.

MIA isn't terrible - if you don't mind Miami. The flying there is pretty good.

DFW isn't bad on the ATR either.

I figure that when they start hiring again you won't be able to pick your domicile. I think that program is over with. They were struggling to find people to fly the ATR when I hired on - and I don't think they're going to let that happen again.

[quote=Pontius Pilot;554658]Yeah, you don't want to end up in SJU on the ATR. It may sound like a great place, but its crowded, expensive and dirty and it really tough. If you speak fluent Spanish and you enjoy the 3rd world country type setting, then it can be paradise. I, and a big number of the people I know that got sent down there, hated it.

MIA isn't terrible - if you don't mind Miami. The flying there is pretty good.
quote]

Which routes do they fly out of Miami? Is is mostly to the bahamas and around Florida?

Sounds like NY or MIA.

At first I wanted to go anywhere but SJ. Now that I have taken some time to think about it I think I might like to go to SJ and fly the ATR. Here are my reasons tell me what you think. 1. Probably have the best chance at paying off my student loans and surviving at the same time on first yr FO pay (compared to ORD, MIA, LAX, JFK, ect.) 2. The weather would be pretty awesome, 82deg average for the year, low near 70 during the winter. 3. If I absoulutely hated it I could hopefully bid to get on the ERJ or CRJ somewhere else after a year and second year FO pay wouldn't be that bad (compared to first years). 4. I actually like flying so the ATR would be the best for me. 5. I need to work on my spanish, haha.

if you go to SJU and don't commute you might live a lonely life without any family or friends. if you commute you will find out how much commuting sucks.

you won't pay off your students loans easily on FO pay no matter where you are.

you do get a lot of good experience flying in the northeast. i don't think there is anything else like it. flying a prop is good experience too, i can't discredit that.

from what i have heard it's a pretty crack operation down there but if you can make the best of it you won't mind any other base.

if you come to JFK you get really good at jamacian.

1. Cost of living there is expensive! Almost ridiculously so. Food is terribly high, so high I almost went into shock at the grocery store there. Crash pads are going to run you $400 or more - a bit more than you can usually find them around the other Eagle domiciles.

2. Can't argue with the weather. It is beautiful, gorgeous - but you won't get much instrument time. What clouds there are we avoid like the plague because they are brutal bumpy little buggers. Weather is good until Hurricane blow through, which is kind of neat too. You will sweat your butt off down there. AC is rare because electricity is so expensive (5 times the continental US rate or more). My crash pad was sweltering at night. There is something to be said for being able to eat outside in January, but the novelty can wear off.

3. If you hate it that year will seem like an eternity. I met a few people that had the same thoughts and they were miserable and trying everything to get out of there. If you hate it the job becomes miserable and you'll make everyone else miserable. Somehow those guys down there can sense a guy who's sick of being there (I guess they get exposed to it a lot).

4. The ATR is a great flying plane, there is no doubt about that. It takes a pilot to fly it and automation is at a minimum. So you get stick and rudder skills. You'll be slapping that thing down on tiny runways in less than ideal conditions. It can be exhilarating. Its a pilot's plane. I don't regret choosing th aircraft. Its an excellent, well built, bullet proof airplane. It has some maintenance problems here and there, but it seldom lets you down.

5. Puerto Ricans are the fastest Spanish speaking people on the planet and they speak a different brand than most people are taught in school. Its a bit more proper than what you might hear in Mexico. Its hard to figure out what's going on at the speed they throw it at you. You get the hang of it. A lot of people are shy to practice their English, but many of them had to take it in High School so they know it.

Before you were to make a decision I have a recommendation for you. Fly down there and stay for a couple of days and check it out. You may like it, you may hate it. People can go either way. I've met people who just meld into it and will probably never leave...and then there are the guys who will kill you just to move up seniority and get out of there! San Juan is a rough and tumble city and its definitely not what many people expect. That being said, I didn't hate it. I hated commuting. Had my wife been there with me it would've been great. You really just have to go and see it for yourself.

Hopefully I've been as objective as possible about it.

[quote=welle036;554667]Routes may have changed a little since my last exposure to MIA, but generally consist of:

Key West, Savannah, GA, Jacksonville, Tampa, Ft. Myers.
Bahamas: Marsh Harbour, Freeport, Nassau.
Cuba: you can sometimes pick up trips to Cuba, cool and worth the experience.

As I said, we may have changed some of these, but that's the ones I recall.

Pontius Pilot - thanks for the info/advice. I actually have been contemplating taking a trip down to SJ for a few days to see how I would like it. To be honest my number one choice would be ERJ in ORD. I guess you could say I'm just really trying to be prepared for the worst case senario.

Pontius Pilot- Where did you commute from? are most flights there open? If I was to be based there I would try to commute from DFW.. comments, suggestions?

I commuted from the desert southwest through DFW most times. DFW flights (at least before passenger loads took a nose dive) were notoriously full and I was 9 times out of 10 in the jumpseat. Not a comfortable 5 hour flight, but the conversation and the view were usually good. I learned a lot about flying around hurricanes!

When commuting you always need a backup plan. For instance I went through Atlanta a few times, Houston once, Orlando a few times and Miami a bit. Sometimes I would go from home to DFW - DFW to MIA - spend the night in the crew room and then catch the morning flight to SJU. You can always get there, you just have to be creative and willing to adapt your plans. I would say going out of DFW gives you a lot of options.

Furthermore you may consider flying on airlines other than AA to get there. You have to pay to fly AA and it was costing me around $40 roundtrip from SJU - DFW. It doesn't seem like a lot, but if you do it once a week it eats into your pay. Other airlines are free. I've taken Delta, Continental, AirTran and Spirit just to save money.

Commuting takes a lot out of you. I probably have more time on the flight deck of a 757 than I have right seat in the ATR. But if you have to do it, you have to do it. Its a hard lifestyle and I don't know many that enjoy it. But it can be a means to an end.

If I had it all to do over again, I would've taken ORD and gotten on the CRJ (nobody wanted the CRJ in my new hire class). The ERJ would've worked just as well though. I'm not sure they will allow you to chose bases when they start hiring again - but definitely visit SJU if you get a choice and are thinking about it. I wish I would have done it.

thanks for the info.. are they sending a good amount of pilots to SJU? Even though they brought some of the ATRs to DFW?? how hard is it to hold DFW ATR?

Since they cut flying down in SJU by quite a bit, they really don't have as great a need as they used to. I don't know about the seniority at DFW because it keeps changing - a lot of the former Saab pilots are still being trained on the ATR and former ERJ guys are coming over too. My friend just did IOE this week, he went from ERJ DFW to ATR DFW. So until training is all done it will be hard to figure. I don't think it will be hard to hold. MIA is usually very senior and SJU is packed with the people who want to be there right now. So you don't have the chances of getting sent to SJU that you used to.

I figured that base choice isn't going to happen, but it is nice to know the likelihood of SJU is less if there are people that like it there and staffing is fine in SJ. I wouldn't mind most of the other bases, I don't think I would like LAX, SJU, or DFW...

I just want a different job right now... At least I'm still flying I guess.

Don't worry about getting stuck in LA when the music starts again. That base is as senior as it gets. I would figure JFK and ORD being the first bases to get staffed with new hires. That being said, I would not expect a choice this time around. It was nice while it lasted and while we were short-staffed in every base but times have changed, recruiting will be easier for the company and not all bases need pilots.

One last thing that stinks about SJU:

Its hot and humid and the aircraft have no APU and we don't use hotel mode. The ground air units don't have a chance. It is a sweat box in those things until you get to about 10,000'. I almost forgot that one! I don't miss that at all!

really only SJU is the base I'd mind... other then that I'm cool.... I've heard the stories from my cousin and friend....

I spoke with Claudette the other day and was told that there are still pools of pilots at eagle. She said that they had 3 different pools. Didn't really specify what the differences were...

My guess is there is a pool for people sent to an RJ course, people hired with higher times and no RJ course, and I have no idea what the last one could be. Maybe people that never made it to an RJ course but were hired.

She said they did think that they were going to hire this summer due to attrition reasons, however it may not be till early 2010. And if they did hire it would probably be a smaller class, so most likely only people that are already in one of the pools.

I believe one of them is an interview pool as I was in one of those (if it even still exists)...

not sure how the pools are divided, but there are about 10-20 people that were sent to the jet course (10 in my class at FSI, at least 3 are on to other things)

hopefully something happens...if not, well keep on truckin

Not to get all excited but I saw on climbto350 that AE is hiring FAs. I had a talk w/ some old mx buddies from cmh and lax and they said that from what they heard from ppl talking is that “eagle is really close to getting back to hiring”, not so much the frenzy of 07 early 08 but maybe a class or two…but until I get that “call” I wont hold my breath!!

We had a FA class there in Dec/Jan while I was there for training. So, I can confirm that part, the other, not so sure about.

Historically, has there been any correlation between need for FAs and need for pilots? If so that would be a good thing. Drink count - 6

The pools "expired" didn't they? I was given my letter last May and was about 3 weeks away from going to the RJ course before they stopped all classes and I believe my letter said the offer was valid for 6 months. I'm assuming I'd have to re-apply if they started hiring again, right?

I was told if they were hiring then the 6 month thing would count, but since they're not hiring it doesn't matter as long as you have your letter and have been flying... for what it's worth.

That is correct kojack...we thought the same thing but since the contract never states the duration of a hiring pool...it is good till they disolve it, which after talking to HR isn't the case right now.

I received a conditional offer of employment letter last year from Eagle. I have no idea where it is now. Do you think they care or not if you physically have the original letter?

I'm pretty sure they have a copy of it. They never asked to see mine. I'm pretty sure that's just for you to have. They know who they've made offers to.

Pontius Pilot, I thought I had your ID pinned, until you mentioned something about being married. Something fishy with that :D

Anyway, just to give you an idea about staffing… At the moment the Jet side is fat and the ATR side is slim. So slim that management is spreading people out in a big way. Screw Scheduling is getting very creative lately. In fact, I think they take into account the contractual 2 “junior man” per month when making decisions. I personally have been “junior manned” at least once per month for the last 4 months and managed to dodge twice as many calls. Captains are getting nailed even worse. One ATR FO I know got called for a “junior man” to sit in the captain’s seat. He was a captain two months before and displaced to FO. He got nice chuckle of letting them know about his current situation. We are still trying to figure out the legality of it if he had actually done it.

I had an instructor pilot in the jump seat for a few legs this week. It seems the major hold up in ATR staffing is not the lack of bodies but a clog in training. FOs will get through ok, but our FAA POI is making the Captain transitions tough.

In Miami we had a few people from Crew Scheduling, Dispatch, Crew Planning and Crew Resources for a nice little “meet and greet.” I suppose it was intended for all the crews to meet the people in charge of our lives and hopefully smooth over some recent hard feelings.

What I learned: None of these people really know W_T_F is going on. They do the best with what is handed them. Crew Scheduling has NO control over how many pilots they have. All they can do is shuffle and pressured to make things work. The Crew Planner is given a schedule from someone from AA. They are the ones that dictate what routes that are needed. He just tries to make everyone happy but that obviously isn’t going to happen. Crew Resources actually may have had a decent plan, but they have no idea how the training is really going to go and have to make decisions on unknown and ever changing variables. These are not departments under one “know it all being.” They are separate and think only within their own compartment.

That is the way AA corporate structure is. You have your job to do and very little communication or control over anything else. This is what the business world calls “internal controls.” Separate people’s jobs to a great extent to help prevent unethical behavior. It doesn’t really work and creates huge inefficiencies, but that’s how big companies are I suppose. This is demonstrated everyday on our day to day job. Hell, If the FA needs ice, they tell me, I tell operations, operations tells the chief of cabin services, cabin services gets the message and makes it to the plane when they get around to it. Now imagine our frustration when the Electronic Weight and Balance doesn’t match the Load Sheet. I SEE the rampers, but can’t talk to them. I gotta call Ops, who then calls the crew chief who then calls the ramper. The problem has to be communicated through 3 different lines, fixed, and then sent back through 3 lines. Such simple matters cannot be solved directly. Now apply this type of structure to mid level management, and instead of a line, make a web.

The point is the structure PREVENTS ANYONE FROM SEEING THE BIG PICTURE. THEREFORE, THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE CREDIBLE SOURCE. I don’t care what your heard from “any horse’s mouth.” I don’t even care what HR says. Chances are they don’t even know when they are hiring again. And don’t get me started on the training department. Please, those people are so far removed it’s ridiculous. There are as many opinions in the training department as there are instructors. I know, I made a point to ask each instructor I ran into about divesture. Each person gave me a completely different opinion from the last person.

I hope this post was insightful
/rant