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Hey guys....how come no one is mentioning that Midwest flat out refused the takeover bid over a year ago? If that would have taken place where would the midwest pilots be now? Many still without a job maybe?
I personally do not see midwest's product being functional. their pilots will admit that the type of operation was very marketable 10 years ago, but is not supportive of today's market. Talk to any Midwest pilot. Prior to this contract for RAH being announced they were roughly 3 days from closing their doors. Now put yourself in a Ceo or union position. Do you really want to close the doors or would you rather hang on to any chance you have for survival? This contract was a matter of survival and from the unions perspective they have secured at least some pilot positions for now and in the future if they remain viable. they had two options close the doors and everyone is out of a job. Or fight to have the chance to survive and bring people back, meanwhile a small portion remain working? The pilots and other midwest employees are proud people and deserve your support. Rather than blaming bb and RAH why can't we stop complaining, hope that Midwest can remain viable, restructure, and when the time is right take over RAH's 170s or figure out some other option that allows them to bring people back? Ignorance is why the industry is the way it is today. Have you seen the contracts word for word. Have you seen the financials of the company prior to this being signed? Have you talked to a senior Midwest pilot who may not agree with what has happened but that understands and just wants to know one way or another what is going to happen to his company? This was purely a temporary business decision for both companies. It stopped some cash hemorrhaging from both corporations and has allowed both to be in a better position than if they had not entered into this contract. So stop being ignorant, recognize this for what it is and stop pointing fingers. Lastly, everyone says that this is bad for the industry, etc. I agree that may be. My career may be affected. Your career may be affected. This is due to the fact that precedent has been set. But you have two options. Protect yourself and the industry (contracts) and deal with the rest or get out. until us pilots stop shooting ourselves in the foot and actually stand up for what we think is right together, nothing will change until natural economic forces change the demographics of our industry resulting in a shortage of pilots (who knows how long that will be). You can't have one group strike, create work stoppages, etc. At a regional all that does is create a liability. Until everyone or all regionals or majors stand up together at the same exact time, or until the public truly understands the state of our industry nothing will change. you or I can't stand up if only a few are....and right now not everyone is willing to stand up. What happened to the sack in our industry? |
Originally Posted by TrojanCMH
(Post 542775)
Regional pilots blaming other regional pilots. Stop acting like high school girls and realize that every regional is the problem. As someone said before if it wasn't RAH that came in to do the flying it would have been someone else. All of a sudden RAH is the bad guy because they seem to be picking up more flying while nobody else is. If it was Express Jet or Skywest that was adding a bunch of new partners then everyone would be calling them the new "Mesa".
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542790)
Hey guys....how come no one is mentioning that Midwest flat out refused the takeover bid over a year ago? If that would have taken place where would the midwest pilots be now? Many still without a job maybe?
I personally do not see midwest's product being functional. their pilots will admit that the type of operation was very marketable 10 years ago, but is not supportive of today's market. Talk to any Midwest pilot. Prior to this contract for RAH being announced they were roughly 3 days from closing their doors. Now put yourself in a Ceo or union position. Do you really want to close the doors or would you rather hang on to any chance you have for survival? This contract was a matter of survival and from the unions perspective they have secured at least some pilot positions for now and in the future if they remain viable. they had two options close the doors and everyone is out of a job. Or fight to have the chance to survive and bring people back, meanwhile a small portion remain working? The pilots and other midwest employees are proud people and deserve your support. Rather than blaming bb and RAH why can't we stop complaining, hope that Midwest can remain viable, restructure, and when the time is right take over RAH's 170s or figure out some other option that allows them to bring people back? Ignorance is why the industry is the way it is today. Have you seen the contracts word for word. Have you seen the financials of the company prior to this being signed? Have you talked to a senior Midwest pilot who may not agree with what has happened but that understands and just wants to know one way or another what is going to happen to his company? This was purely a temporary business decision for both companies. It stopped some cash hemorrhaging from both corporations and has allowed both to be in a better position than if they had not entered into this contract. So stop being ignorant, recognize this for what it is and stop pointing fingers. Lastly, everyone says that this is bad for the industry, etc. I agree that may be. My career may be affected. Your career may be affected. This is due to the fact that precedent has been set. But you have two options. Protect yourself and the industry (contracts) and deal with the rest or get out. until us pilots stop shooting ourselves in the foot and actually stand up for what we think is right together, nothing will change until natural economic forces change the demographics of our industry resulting in a shortage of pilots (who knows how long that will be). You can't have one group strike, create work stoppages, etc. At a regional all that does is create a liability. Until everyone or all regionals or majors stand up together at the same exact time, or until the public truly understands the state of our industry it will not stay the same. you or I can't stand up if only a few are....and right now not everyone is willing to stand up. What happened to the sack in our industry? |
Originally Posted by duvie
(Post 542791)
The way RAH goes after flying is different than the way most regionals do, lately they have been buying their way into contracts. I'm not saying whats better or worse for the industry and I'm personally not jealous of RAH, I'm just stating the fact that RAH is quite predatory as opposed to many of the more conservative regionals
You really nailed it, this guy makes Lorenzo seem civilized. Forget for a second that Bedford bought his way into a morality free zone where the midwest guys are paying for it...how about the fact that this sets a precedent for other companies to attempt the same. I guarantee you Larry is sitting in his office right now, thinking of a way to bring in a codeshare while circumventing the pilot’s scope, after all Midwest pulled it off with Bedford’s help. Apparently the term codeshare just became a free for all, screw your pilots while another company (in this case RAH) *****s themselves out to meet your needs. I truly hope this does not become the trend, because otherwise you guys better get comfortable in your seats flying a Canadair or an Embraer product for $60+ an hour for the rest of your careers. Nice going BB, did you also execute this plan with divine intervention? |
Sadly business is not about the kindness of the heart. I wish it was, but it never has and never will be. Most pax go on orbitz and search for the cheapest fair on whichever airline. They don't buy a more expensive ticket (most dont) on the airline that "needs one for the gipper".
From a business perspective both companies are better off and bedford may be a smart businessman. |
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542790)
Hey guys....how come no one is mentioning that Midwest flat out refused the takeover bid over a year ago? If that would have taken place where would the midwest pilots be now? Many still without a job maybe?
I personally do not see midwest's product being functional. their pilots will admit that the type of operation was very marketable 10 years ago, but is not supportive of today's market. Talk to any Midwest pilot. Prior to this contract for RAH being announced they were roughly 3 days from closing their doors. Now put yourself in a Ceo or union position. Do you really want to close the doors or would you rather hang on to any chance you have for survival? This contract was a matter of survival and from the unions perspective they have secured at least some pilot positions for now and in the future if they remain viable. they had two options close the doors and everyone is out of a job. Or fight to have the chance to survive and bring people back, meanwhile a small portion remain working? The pilots and other midwest employees are proud people and deserve your support. Rather than blaming bb and RAH why can't we stop complaining, hope that Midwest can remain viable, restructure, and when the time is right take over RAH's 170s or figure out some other option that allows them to bring people back? Ignorance is why the industry is the way it is today. Have you seen the contracts word for word. Have you seen the financials of the company prior to this being signed? Have you talked to a senior Midwest pilot who may not agree with what has happened but that understands and just wants to know one way or another what is going to happen to his company? This was purely a temporary business decision for both companies. It stopped some cash hemorrhaging from both corporations and has allowed both to be in a better position than if they had not entered into this contract. So stop being ignorant, recognize this for what it is and stop pointing fingers. Lastly, everyone says that this is bad for the industry, etc. I agree that may be. My career may be affected. Your career may be affected. This is due to the fact that precedent has been set. But you have two options. Protect yourself and the industry (contracts) and deal with the rest or get out. until us pilots stop shooting ourselves in the foot and actually stand up for what we think is right together, nothing will change until natural economic forces change the demographics of our industry resulting in a shortage of pilots (who knows how long that will be). You can't have one group strike, create work stoppages, etc. At a regional all that does is create a liability. Until everyone or all regionals or majors stand up together at the same exact time, or until the public truly understands the state of our industry nothing will change. you or I can't stand up if only a few are....and right now not everyone is willing to stand up. What happened to the sack in our industry? Again, show me proof that Midwest was going to go out of business or that they could not secure financing elsewhere. Bedford set this thing up from the beginning, everyone know's it, the guy is no different than Lorenzo, it doesn't matter who gets screwed as long as we get ours (the stockholders), by contrast look at Bethune, Herb, Ream, even Jerry is not as bad as this guy! Bedford, J.O., Hulas, these are the guys that are destroying the industry by finding ways around labor contracts. And you guys at RAH, if you think this man is not going to turn on you, you have another thing coming. Apparently he didn't have a problem upgrading folks out of seniority a while back, apparently he didn't have a problem with furloughing out of seniority a few years back, and if you think that's where it'll stop just wait 'til you guys see red on the books. I'm certainly not wishing anything bad on the pilots at RAH, but coming on here defending this thief is rather disturbing to say the least. |
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542802)
Sadly business is not about the kindness of the heart. I wish it was, but it never has and never will be. Most pax go on orbitz and search for the cheapest fair on whichever airline. They don't buy a more expensive ticket (most dont) on the airline that "needs one for the gipper".
From a business perspective both companies are better off and bedford may be a smart businessman. In the name of business a gentleman (loosely speaking) by the name of Lorenzo tore apart two companies less than 20 years ago, and created a precedent in labor commonly referred to as scabs now. In the name of business both J.O. and Hulas created alter egos that reinforced Lorenzo's legacy 15 years later. And you have no proof that Midwest could've gone under, they could've easily secure financing elsewhere, just like Frontier, Northwest and USair a few years back. Hey man I understand, it's probably not fun being a part of the outfit that's burying this industry head first, but don't lower yourself to his level by defending him. |
Originally Posted by byebyeairlines
(Post 542573)
I just wanted to add my airline. Comair sucks too! The pilots are great, but the company is s--t.
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Originally Posted by Bond
(Post 542813)
So you're ok with this? You think 300 folks out of work at Midwest means they're better off now. WOW, talk about setting yourself and your brothers up for failure.
If its industry jobs, I DO NOT like it and believe that the industry is better off allowing unhealthy companies that aren't viable in a current market to fail. Where do you stand? Don't argue without specific points. And you have no proof that Midwest could've gone under, they could've easily secure financing elsewhere, just like Frontier, Northwest and USair a few years back. Hey man I understand, it's probably not fun being a part of the outfit that's burying this industry head first, but don't lower yourself to his level by defending him. |
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542827)
Being ok with this depends on your arguing point. Are we talking about midwest jobs or industry jobs? If it is midwest jobs, i am ok with it. ALL of their pilots would be unemployed ALL of em.
If its industry jobs, I DO NOT like it and believe that the industry is better off allowing unhealthy companies that aren't viable in a current market to fail. |
It sucks for the Midwest employees...that is THE best operation I've ever ridden on and I wish they still served some of the smaller markets they have pulled out of. However, Bedford's responsibility as RJET CEO isn't to Midwest employees - its to RJET shareholders.
Debate the merits of fiduciary responsibility to your heart's content, but Bedford is doing what he has to do to ensure value for his shareholders. I'm sure RAH pilots have no ill wishes whatsoever toward MEH employees, but you'd be naive to think they aren't glad for the RAH jobs that were saved by this agreement. Again, it sucks for the Midwest folks...but the vitriol toward RAH employees is misguided, especially when the sole cause of this isn't Bedford and Heller...its Midwest management. |
Originally Posted by Bond
(Post 542806)
...Bedford set this thing up from the beginning, everyone know's it, the guy is no different than Lorenzo, it doesn't matter who gets screwed as long as we get ours (the stockholders), by contrast look at Bethune, Herb, Ream, even Jerry is not as bad as this guy!...
Its all about the dollar and while I agree with you that this isn't a good thing for the future of our careers I think it is stupid sit here and point your finger at one company. The first time that an ERJ or CRJ got painted in mainline colors and started flying mainline routes was when this whole thing started. I will even argue that the first time any plane started flying mainline routes with pilots from another seniority list was when this whole issue started. Thats where the issue lies, not with Bedford, Hula, or even JO. |
Originally Posted by Bond
(Post 542806)
Again, show me proof that Midwest was going to go out of business or that they could not secure financing elsewhere.
Bedford, J.O., Hulas, these are the guys that are destroying the industry by finding ways around labor contracts. And you guys at RAH, if you think this man is not going to turn on you, you have another thing coming. Apparently he didn't have a problem upgrading folks out of seniority a while back, apparently he didn't have a problem with furloughing out of seniority a few years back, and if you think that's where it'll stop just wait 'til you guys see red on the books. I'm certainly not wishing anything bad on the pilots at RAH, but coming on here defending this thief is rather disturbing to say the least. Rather than talking about a CEO's actions, why don't you talk about the pilots inability to have protection? If a ceo decides to violate rules, there should be something in the contract specifying every detail of what it will cost the company. We are adults and must protect ourselves, but obviously have not done so |
Originally Posted by all4114all
(Post 542837)
United, Delta and Northwest all declared BK. If they were allowed to fail, Midwest would be expanding now.
liquidation was more probable as the market in october would not have likely enabled midwest to file chapter 11 and "restructure". Obviously no other investors wanted to risk lying in bed with Midwest. Otherwise this would not even be on the discussion board. |
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542843)
Show me proof they were not. Wow, dude. Relax. ups and downs. Rather than talking about a CEO's actions, why don't you talk about the pilots inability to have protection? If a ceo decides to violate rules, there should be something in the contract specifying every detail of what it will cost the company. We are adults and must protect ourselves, but obviously have not done so You need to relax, a professional does not utilize the word "dude" in an intelligent conversation. The Midwest pilots were an experienced, adult, capable group of pilots who depended on ALPA "experience" to keep them out of trouble. |
It would seem that the few that are complaining are guys who work for an airline that got it's flying cut and they will be losing aircraft this year. I hope RAH does not get 170s in CAL colors one day, cause these same people would become even more bitter.
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542843)
Whose defending him?
Rather than talking about a CEO's actions, why don't you talk about the pilots inability to have protection? If a ceo decides to violate rules, there should be something in the contract specifying every detail of what it will cost the company. We are adults and must protect ourselves, but obviously have not done so Well, every RAH pilot that continues to show up for work does. You don't, magically, receive "immunity" because you simply complain about your managements actions. If you show up to work flights operated by Midwest pilots that were sent home, you are, BY DEFAULT, supporting the actions of Bedford and telling him that it is ok. There is no "other side of the coin", "our side of the story". We all know that when it comes to our own gains, the majority of people will choose to prosper. That, however, comes at a price and that price is having smart people that are trying to protect this industry question your judgement and ridicule your "defense". Now, while it is true that he has an obligation to his investors and will do what he needs to do to keep Republic in business, he doesn't get afforded that opportunity if he knows he won't find that his employees will do the job regardless of the personal consequences. Simply put, you don't get to say, with any validity, that you don't support management and yet still go work those routes. There is no such animal yet it's been tossed around here all the time. Now, for the second part of what I quoted from you, I agree 100%. However, you are asking ALPA to negotiate terms that management will never agree to, will throw money around to avoid such language, and simply hope that some arbitrator will agree to your interpretation of what "exclusivity" (Not your word but the word that keeps from writing the next Book of Roots in contract law form). What you are asking for is, in fact, needed. Every contract negotiated by ALPA should be as thick as War and Peace with every meaningful situation accounted for. That's what it will take to finally tell management that "trust" doesn't pay the bills, make the pilot groups look like a bunch of greedy aholes and create animosity. We need to take arbitrators out of the loop and put concrete language with validity in front of judges. Our contract will be 1000 pages but that's what we need. |
The regional airlines are NOT to blame for the present problems for pilots in this industry.
Todays pilots need a national union with teeth that will lead. |
RAH's expedited grievance will be heard 2/9/09 by Arbitrator Richard Kasher. The operation of the 170's by MEH pilots “into or out of any cities where the Company [RAH] operates” is a direct violation of the dry lease provisions of the RAH pilot's contract. The dry lease could also result in a loss of jobs for RAH pilots, which is also a violation of the same section.
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542843)
Wow, dude. Relax. RAH will have ups and downs just like your company. Why don't you mention skywest's probable future of slowly dismantling piece by piece ASA?
I imagine SKW will benefit from UAL's decision to park all their 737s, but I don't think they went out and tried to convince UAL to get rid of their airplanes so SKW could get exclusive rights to fly 700s on those routes. In fact quite a few of the UAL guys I've met jumpseating refer to the 170 as the "guppy killer" while still calling the 700 an "RJ." Obviously just in interesting observation of mainline perception of the E-jets, nothing more, nothing less. Whether or not showing up to work makes you an accomplice to the down sizing of legacy carriers can be debated by others. Reiterating again, that I really don't care about RAH's business, however I think its fair to say that their strategies are not helping anybody get to a major any quicker. |
if It Wasn't For Us At Rah......again Midwest would Be Out Of Business!
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542843)
Show me proof they were not. Why don't you ask the majority of midwest pilots that are still there where the company would be right now if it wasn't for this temporary realignment? I don't see them lighting fires on this message board...maybe there is a reason for this
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542843)
Then create valid protections in your contract by making sure that all the language is their for all contingents preventing destruction of work rules or the airline itself. obviously these contracts fail to hold their value due the unions lawyers inability to create a valid protection due to miswordings or ommisions
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542843)
Wow, dude. Relax. RAH will have ups and downs just like your company. Why don't you mention skywest's probable future of slowly dismantling piece by piece ASA? Any corporation is going to have a up and down cycle resulting in growth, shrinking, job loss, job creation. What you just said is very naive and inappropriate.
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542843)
Whose defending him? Who do you work for almighty one? Every regional is close to one in the same. micromanaged with employees being treated like illegitimate step children. Some have money, some don't. RAH does. Some have 50/70/80 seat jets, some have props. There is a constant battle of ups and downs.
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542843)
Rather than talking about a CEO's actions, why don't you talk about the pilots inability to have protection? If a ceo decides to violate rules, there should be something in the contract specifying every detail of what it will cost the company. We are adults and must protect ourselves, but obviously have not done so
You are a pilot (or at least you claim to be), be one, support your fellow pilots, but don't defend the guy that violates your contract, and then goes on to pull a Lorenzo on another pilot group. And again, where are your facts, where's the link that shows how liquidation was eminent at Midwest? Bottom line is that the Midwest management and Bedford weaken this industry even more with this deal, and it's still beyond me that you're going to bat for the man that could possibly be the reason you'll spend the rest of your career at a regional carrier. |
Originally Posted by GAPILOT36
(Post 542885)
if It Wasn't For Us At Rah......again Midwest would Be Out Of Business!
Prove it! Show me a quarterly report, or any legal or press release that indicates that 1.Midwest was in the midst of a liquidation and 2. That they would not be able to secure financing elsewhere. Come on! You don't seem to have a problem screaming, back up your argument with proof. |
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542846)
liquidation was more probable as the market in october would not have likely enabled midwest to file chapter 11 and "restructure". Obviously no other investors wanted to risk lying in bed with Midwest. Otherwise this would not even be on the discussion board.
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Well since you are so into proof Mr. Bond.... prove to me that RAH approached MW and not the other way around.........
FWIW... you all sound like a bunch of cackling hens. Hell SKW has been buying themselves to the top of the regional ladder for years..... FIRST ASA.... then their failed attempt at XJET.... but i guess the 800 or so pilots that would have lost their jobs in that purchase would have been okay..... Frankly I have no dog in this fight anymore.....but the "sizing" of the industry is NOTHING new. so called mainline companies have been moving this juggernaut for many years. i dare say in 10-15 years ( maybe less ) that most legacy carriers of today will have very few domestic flights. Domestic will be the pervue of those that survive ( whether we like it or not ) at this leverl. |
Originally Posted by Bond
(Post 542896)
Where's your proof of such? This is pure speculation on your behalf, and probably something the reverend fed you guys without any proof of the above. Show me anything such as a quaterly report, or a press release, or any legal document that shows the above. Bedford didn't save anyone or anything at Midwest.
And it's pure speculation on your behalf that they would still be ok....Do you know that they wouldnt be ok or would?....nope It is a private company...not even the pilots know what the financial s are. And lastly many speak like i work there. I don't, so please refrain from thinking I do. I really don't care about what happens because I'm not gonna be in the states to deal with it. But until pilots stop pointing fingers and stand up together as men, women and brothers this ****ing match will always continue. You know what the beauty is.....no one really knows any details of any of this and only time will tell with the end result. |
Originally Posted by HercDriver130
(Post 542907)
Hell SKW has been buying themselves to the top of the regional ladder for years..... FIRST ASA.... then their failed attempt at XJET.... but i guess the 800 or so pilots that would have lost their jobs in that purchase would have been okay....
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Who was the arbitrator for this case? Also, who actually thinks any arbitrator will rule in pilots favor these days. They are so worried about doing $ harm to a company they cave for managment.
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Originally Posted by GAPILOT36
(Post 542885)
if It Wasn't For Us At Rah......again Midwest would Be Out Of Business!
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542843)
Rather than talking about a CEO's actions, why don't you talk about the pilots inability to have protection? If a ceo decides to violate rules, there should be something in the contract specifying every detail of what it will cost the company. We are adults and must protect ourselves, but obviously have not done so
It'd be like sticking your finger in the barrel of a gun, attempting to stop the bullet. |
Originally Posted by GAPILOT36
(Post 542885)
if It Wasn't For Us At Rah......again Midwest would Be Out Of Business!
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542912)
And it's pure speculation on your behalf that they would still be ok....Do you know that they wouldnt be ok or would?....nope It is a private company...not even the pilots know what the financial s are.
And lastly many speak like i work there. I don't, so please refrain from thinking I do. I really don't care about what happens because I'm not gonna be in the states to deal with it. But until pilots stop pointing fingers and stand up together as men, women and brothers this ****ing match will always continue. You know what the beauty is.....no one really knows any details of any of this and only time will tell with the end result. After defending Bedford like that you're either a faithful follower, or you're another g/a pilot who thinks they know anything about our environment. Again, you answered a question with a question, so where is your proof, would you like me to quote your post again? Where's your proof? Here's your quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542846)
liquidation was more probable as the market in october would not have likely enabled midwest to file chapter 11 and "restructure". Obviously no other investors wanted to risk lying in bed with Midwest. Otherwise this would not even be on the discussion board.
The pilots and other midwest employees are proud people and deserve your support. Rather than blaming bb and RAH why can't we stop complaining, hope that Midwest can remain viable, restructure, and when the time is right take over RAH's 170s or figure out some other option that allows them to bring people back? Johney Cochran was the lawyer that got that loser O.J. off a double capital murder case on the basis of reasonable doubt...the name fits the profile. |
Originally Posted by DeltaPaySoon
(Post 542862)
Well, every RAH pilot that continues to show up for work does. You don't, magically, receive "immunity" because you simply complain about your managements actions.
If you show up to work flights operated by Midwest pilots that were sent home, you are, BY DEFAULT, supporting the actions of Bedford and telling him that it is ok. There is no "other side of the coin", "our side of the story". This is, by far, one of the most idiotic statements that I have read on this board. So, instead of 300 pilots on the street, lets make is 301 (or more) by having the RAH pilot refuse to fly. I personally need the job (income), so I will continue to fly. Do I like the situation that the company put me in? No. But I don't have a choice in the matter. If you haven't heard, the economy is in really bad shape. Anyone that has a job needs to work hard to keep that job. And for those of you that say that we are creating an environment that is not conducive to moving up to a major, get real! Wherever anyone is right now, you better get used to it. Its no longer an environment of 2 years at a regional and then moving along. I need to make sure that my place of employment has a contract that is reasonable and provides for retirement. That is how I am taking care of my brothers and sisters. I personally have over 8,000 hours of flight time and that isn't competitive in today's market. Moving to a major right now is almost career suicide and I will explain why (and hopefully this provides insight as to how I function at my present company). If I get hired by a major in the next 2 or 3 years, I will be 40 years old. Back to making less than 1/2 of what I am making right now. If times are really good, then I might only be on reserve for 4 or 5 years. 2 years after I am hired, I am back to making my present salary. But my quality of life is significantly decreased. So I wait, watch my quality of life improve and finally upgrade to Captain on a 100+ seat jet. I'm now 50-55 years old. My quality of life goes back to the pits being a reserve Captain. When I finally get a good quality of life, I most likely have less than 5 years before mandatory retirement. Regional pay: $70,000/yr for 27 years = $2,106,000. Mainline pay: FO at $30,000 for 1 year, then FO at $70,000 for another 9 years. Captain at $120,000 for 15 years = $1,800,000. Total = $2,460,000. Difference is $354,000. If it costs me $354,000 to be able to see my daughter, do school functions with her, etc - well, that is a price that I am willing to pay. I am just guessing on the numbers, but I think that you can see what I am getting at. |
Originally Posted by EEmbraer
(Post 543007)
This is, by far, one of the most idiotic statements that I have read on this board.
Midwest was NOT going to go out of business because of the labor contract. It was simply the BEST time to re-invent the "labor situation". Of course YOU think so, you're the one cashing the check. Enjoy the time you have with your family knowing that others have been kicked to the curb because of your "economically agreeable attitude". Let's revisit this "idiotic" statement when you get sent packing under similar circumstances. Making a statement like I did is so far removed from idiotic to those outside of RAH that it really scares me in regard to what you WOULDN'T do to feel better about yourself and RAH's position in the industry. While caring for your family is understandable, you are the real idiot not to see how destructable Bedfords actions are for the masses. |
A person could fault RAH pilots for flying Midwest mainline routes. It’s not like Midwest pilot group gave that flying up. If I was a pilot for RAH I would do everything possible not to work. Call out sick, fatigue, switch base, or even quite before directly putting a higher paying Midwest pilot out of work.
The other side of that coin it is Midwest pilots and ALPA who are at fault for not have a strong scope. CAL and AA appear to have scope protected. What group is really at fault??? Management! |
Ignorance is bliss and it's heaven around here.
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well at least if MESA goes under we'll have a new JO to hate (bedford)
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Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
(Post 543144)
Ignorance is bliss and it's heaven around here.
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Honestly folks, nearly each and every one of you needs to zip your childish lips. I've had it. If you are a regional pilot *****ing right now - shut up. If you are a CFI or airline pilot wannabe - shut up. This has to be one of the most retarded threads I have seen in a long time, and as you can see, I don't respond to many threads.
REGIONAL FOLKS - TELL ME WHAT YOU WOULD DO IF YOUR COMPANY WAS FLYING 70 SEATERS FOR MIDWEST. AFTER THAT, TELL ME AND THE WORLD HOW YOU INDIVIDUALLY WOULD HAVE KEPT IT FROM HAPPENING SO THAT WE ALL KNOW HOW TO MAKE THE FUTURE A BEAUTIFUL AND WONDERFUL PLACE WHERE THE SUN ALWAYS SHINES, AND UNICORNS GRAZE IN GREEN PASTURES. ONLY RESPOND IF YOU HAVE A LOGICAL ANSWER THAT IS BELIEVABLE AND YOU COULD BE HELD TO IT. (I can't wait for the smart remarks, which will be ignored). CFI AND AIRLINE PILOT WANNABES WHO LOVE TO THINK THEY KNOW EVERYTHING - I'LL BE HONEST, YOU'RE OPINION REALLY DOESN'T MEAN MUCH TO ME. (I APOLOGIZE, BUT BEING HONEST). What's funny, as mentioned by a couple folks previously who were overlooked, is that it's the little people (regional guys) that are the ones bickering here, and it's stupid (and I fly for Chautauqua and the military). Don't you guys have anything else to do in this life? Do you show up at home after a trip, throw down a few and jump on the computer to spread your lame opinions and gossip? Normally you guys are entertaining, but having done most jobs in the airline industry over 13 years for multiple companies and the government, I'm simply tired of your petty BS on this topic. Rant over. |
Nirvana' until a few years from now when another airline is brought in by bedford to take over their flying, and they're posting on this very forum how wrong and evil that group is
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