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Hey guys....how come no one is mentioning that Midwest flat out refused the takeover bid over a year ago? If that would have taken place where would the midwest pilots be now? Many still without a job maybe?
I personally do not see midwest's product being functional. their pilots will admit that the type of operation was very marketable 10 years ago, but is not supportive of today's market. Talk to any Midwest pilot. Prior to this contract for RAH being announced they were roughly 3 days from closing their doors. Now put yourself in a Ceo or union position. Do you really want to close the doors or would you rather hang on to any chance you have for survival? This contract was a matter of survival and from the unions perspective they have secured at least some pilot positions for now and in the future if they remain viable. they had two options close the doors and everyone is out of a job. Or fight to have the chance to survive and bring people back, meanwhile a small portion remain working? The pilots and other midwest employees are proud people and deserve your support. Rather than blaming bb and RAH why can't we stop complaining, hope that Midwest can remain viable, restructure, and when the time is right take over RAH's 170s or figure out some other option that allows them to bring people back? Ignorance is why the industry is the way it is today. Have you seen the contracts word for word. Have you seen the financials of the company prior to this being signed? Have you talked to a senior Midwest pilot who may not agree with what has happened but that understands and just wants to know one way or another what is going to happen to his company? This was purely a temporary business decision for both companies. It stopped some cash hemorrhaging from both corporations and has allowed both to be in a better position than if they had not entered into this contract. So stop being ignorant, recognize this for what it is and stop pointing fingers. Lastly, everyone says that this is bad for the industry, etc. I agree that may be. My career may be affected. Your career may be affected. This is due to the fact that precedent has been set. But you have two options. Protect yourself and the industry (contracts) and deal with the rest or get out. until us pilots stop shooting ourselves in the foot and actually stand up for what we think is right together, nothing will change until natural economic forces change the demographics of our industry resulting in a shortage of pilots (who knows how long that will be). You can't have one group strike, create work stoppages, etc. At a regional all that does is create a liability. Until everyone or all regionals or majors stand up together at the same exact time, or until the public truly understands the state of our industry nothing will change. you or I can't stand up if only a few are....and right now not everyone is willing to stand up. What happened to the sack in our industry? |
Originally Posted by TrojanCMH
(Post 542775)
Regional pilots blaming other regional pilots. Stop acting like high school girls and realize that every regional is the problem. As someone said before if it wasn't RAH that came in to do the flying it would have been someone else. All of a sudden RAH is the bad guy because they seem to be picking up more flying while nobody else is. If it was Express Jet or Skywest that was adding a bunch of new partners then everyone would be calling them the new "Mesa".
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542790)
Hey guys....how come no one is mentioning that Midwest flat out refused the takeover bid over a year ago? If that would have taken place where would the midwest pilots be now? Many still without a job maybe?
I personally do not see midwest's product being functional. their pilots will admit that the type of operation was very marketable 10 years ago, but is not supportive of today's market. Talk to any Midwest pilot. Prior to this contract for RAH being announced they were roughly 3 days from closing their doors. Now put yourself in a Ceo or union position. Do you really want to close the doors or would you rather hang on to any chance you have for survival? This contract was a matter of survival and from the unions perspective they have secured at least some pilot positions for now and in the future if they remain viable. they had two options close the doors and everyone is out of a job. Or fight to have the chance to survive and bring people back, meanwhile a small portion remain working? The pilots and other midwest employees are proud people and deserve your support. Rather than blaming bb and RAH why can't we stop complaining, hope that Midwest can remain viable, restructure, and when the time is right take over RAH's 170s or figure out some other option that allows them to bring people back? Ignorance is why the industry is the way it is today. Have you seen the contracts word for word. Have you seen the financials of the company prior to this being signed? Have you talked to a senior Midwest pilot who may not agree with what has happened but that understands and just wants to know one way or another what is going to happen to his company? This was purely a temporary business decision for both companies. It stopped some cash hemorrhaging from both corporations and has allowed both to be in a better position than if they had not entered into this contract. So stop being ignorant, recognize this for what it is and stop pointing fingers. Lastly, everyone says that this is bad for the industry, etc. I agree that may be. My career may be affected. Your career may be affected. This is due to the fact that precedent has been set. But you have two options. Protect yourself and the industry (contracts) and deal with the rest or get out. until us pilots stop shooting ourselves in the foot and actually stand up for what we think is right together, nothing will change until natural economic forces change the demographics of our industry resulting in a shortage of pilots (who knows how long that will be). You can't have one group strike, create work stoppages, etc. At a regional all that does is create a liability. Until everyone or all regionals or majors stand up together at the same exact time, or until the public truly understands the state of our industry it will not stay the same. you or I can't stand up if only a few are....and right now not everyone is willing to stand up. What happened to the sack in our industry? |
Originally Posted by duvie
(Post 542791)
The way RAH goes after flying is different than the way most regionals do, lately they have been buying their way into contracts. I'm not saying whats better or worse for the industry and I'm personally not jealous of RAH, I'm just stating the fact that RAH is quite predatory as opposed to many of the more conservative regionals
You really nailed it, this guy makes Lorenzo seem civilized. Forget for a second that Bedford bought his way into a morality free zone where the midwest guys are paying for it...how about the fact that this sets a precedent for other companies to attempt the same. I guarantee you Larry is sitting in his office right now, thinking of a way to bring in a codeshare while circumventing the pilot’s scope, after all Midwest pulled it off with Bedford’s help. Apparently the term codeshare just became a free for all, screw your pilots while another company (in this case RAH) *****s themselves out to meet your needs. I truly hope this does not become the trend, because otherwise you guys better get comfortable in your seats flying a Canadair or an Embraer product for $60+ an hour for the rest of your careers. Nice going BB, did you also execute this plan with divine intervention? |
Sadly business is not about the kindness of the heart. I wish it was, but it never has and never will be. Most pax go on orbitz and search for the cheapest fair on whichever airline. They don't buy a more expensive ticket (most dont) on the airline that "needs one for the gipper".
From a business perspective both companies are better off and bedford may be a smart businessman. |
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542790)
Hey guys....how come no one is mentioning that Midwest flat out refused the takeover bid over a year ago? If that would have taken place where would the midwest pilots be now? Many still without a job maybe?
I personally do not see midwest's product being functional. their pilots will admit that the type of operation was very marketable 10 years ago, but is not supportive of today's market. Talk to any Midwest pilot. Prior to this contract for RAH being announced they were roughly 3 days from closing their doors. Now put yourself in a Ceo or union position. Do you really want to close the doors or would you rather hang on to any chance you have for survival? This contract was a matter of survival and from the unions perspective they have secured at least some pilot positions for now and in the future if they remain viable. they had two options close the doors and everyone is out of a job. Or fight to have the chance to survive and bring people back, meanwhile a small portion remain working? The pilots and other midwest employees are proud people and deserve your support. Rather than blaming bb and RAH why can't we stop complaining, hope that Midwest can remain viable, restructure, and when the time is right take over RAH's 170s or figure out some other option that allows them to bring people back? Ignorance is why the industry is the way it is today. Have you seen the contracts word for word. Have you seen the financials of the company prior to this being signed? Have you talked to a senior Midwest pilot who may not agree with what has happened but that understands and just wants to know one way or another what is going to happen to his company? This was purely a temporary business decision for both companies. It stopped some cash hemorrhaging from both corporations and has allowed both to be in a better position than if they had not entered into this contract. So stop being ignorant, recognize this for what it is and stop pointing fingers. Lastly, everyone says that this is bad for the industry, etc. I agree that may be. My career may be affected. Your career may be affected. This is due to the fact that precedent has been set. But you have two options. Protect yourself and the industry (contracts) and deal with the rest or get out. until us pilots stop shooting ourselves in the foot and actually stand up for what we think is right together, nothing will change until natural economic forces change the demographics of our industry resulting in a shortage of pilots (who knows how long that will be). You can't have one group strike, create work stoppages, etc. At a regional all that does is create a liability. Until everyone or all regionals or majors stand up together at the same exact time, or until the public truly understands the state of our industry nothing will change. you or I can't stand up if only a few are....and right now not everyone is willing to stand up. What happened to the sack in our industry? Again, show me proof that Midwest was going to go out of business or that they could not secure financing elsewhere. Bedford set this thing up from the beginning, everyone know's it, the guy is no different than Lorenzo, it doesn't matter who gets screwed as long as we get ours (the stockholders), by contrast look at Bethune, Herb, Ream, even Jerry is not as bad as this guy! Bedford, J.O., Hulas, these are the guys that are destroying the industry by finding ways around labor contracts. And you guys at RAH, if you think this man is not going to turn on you, you have another thing coming. Apparently he didn't have a problem upgrading folks out of seniority a while back, apparently he didn't have a problem with furloughing out of seniority a few years back, and if you think that's where it'll stop just wait 'til you guys see red on the books. I'm certainly not wishing anything bad on the pilots at RAH, but coming on here defending this thief is rather disturbing to say the least. |
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542802)
Sadly business is not about the kindness of the heart. I wish it was, but it never has and never will be. Most pax go on orbitz and search for the cheapest fair on whichever airline. They don't buy a more expensive ticket (most dont) on the airline that "needs one for the gipper".
From a business perspective both companies are better off and bedford may be a smart businessman. In the name of business a gentleman (loosely speaking) by the name of Lorenzo tore apart two companies less than 20 years ago, and created a precedent in labor commonly referred to as scabs now. In the name of business both J.O. and Hulas created alter egos that reinforced Lorenzo's legacy 15 years later. And you have no proof that Midwest could've gone under, they could've easily secure financing elsewhere, just like Frontier, Northwest and USair a few years back. Hey man I understand, it's probably not fun being a part of the outfit that's burying this industry head first, but don't lower yourself to his level by defending him. |
Originally Posted by byebyeairlines
(Post 542573)
I just wanted to add my airline. Comair sucks too! The pilots are great, but the company is s--t.
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Originally Posted by Bond
(Post 542813)
So you're ok with this? You think 300 folks out of work at Midwest means they're better off now. WOW, talk about setting yourself and your brothers up for failure.
If its industry jobs, I DO NOT like it and believe that the industry is better off allowing unhealthy companies that aren't viable in a current market to fail. Where do you stand? Don't argue without specific points. And you have no proof that Midwest could've gone under, they could've easily secure financing elsewhere, just like Frontier, Northwest and USair a few years back. Hey man I understand, it's probably not fun being a part of the outfit that's burying this industry head first, but don't lower yourself to his level by defending him. |
Originally Posted by JohnnyCochran
(Post 542827)
Being ok with this depends on your arguing point. Are we talking about midwest jobs or industry jobs? If it is midwest jobs, i am ok with it. ALL of their pilots would be unemployed ALL of em.
If its industry jobs, I DO NOT like it and believe that the industry is better off allowing unhealthy companies that aren't viable in a current market to fail. |
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