Ground 'em all????
 

Take this for what it's worth ...

Wow. Just wow.

From the article:
"Hall [the quoted 'consultant' ] is also a partner with the Nolan Law Group, a law firm specializing in aviation-related lawsuits.

Just about says it all.

no clue
 

Forget about him and his statement.

This guy mixes up the technology he was used to on the Hindenburg with the one used on modern turboprops.

Wise guys like him shouldn`t be allowed to take part in the discussion.

Cheers
Tobias

Modern-Day ambulance chaser..............:mad:

This is sad, the economy the way it is and he wants to ground all turbo-props?? that would be disaster for some companies, that could kill them. I mean, this is exactly what we need right now, more furloughs...How long would Piedmont, Horizon, Colgan, and all the prop operators last with their prop fleets grounded??? not long.....what he proposes is absurd

What about the corporate props, King Airs, PC12s, Avantis, ground them as well????

This makes me so mad

Sounds like a great idea to me. Imagine flying essential air service in 737s.:rolleyes:

This guy lost all credibility when he went to work as a "consultant" at a law firm which makes money suing airlines and pilots.

He is a moron when he makes statements that turboprop fly slower than jets so therefor they spend more time in the ice and are more likely to suffer icing. Anyone who thinks this is the reason why props pick up more ice is a moron. Maybe it has to do with the fact that props live in the weather and jets fly above it? Hmmm, maybe?

Anyone want to take bets that this shark and his ilk at his firm, are trying to squew public opinion, prior to approaching the families of those that died, to represent them. The airlines should start collecting the names of these idiots and black list them from flying commercially, (seems you could argue they like to cause trouble and could start a riot by stirring up the people in the back of the plane... :rolleyes:)or mabye Im just had it up to my neck with idiots, that think they are experts...God Bless the families of everyone lost, and may our lost brothers and sisters on the flight crew rest in peace. I got to stop stressing over these people I cant pass a medical with my blood boiling...

PATHETIC. Im sick of this fear mongering by these special interest groups and media morons. Does anyone freaking care anymore for the victims of a tragedy or does everyone automatically first thing start thinking of ways to benefit themselves because people were killed.
All the information the media has puked out on this incident, the fact to crap ratio is literally 1 in 100. and thats being generous.

The fact is that if all turboprops were grounded, the red tape would keep them grounded for longer than planned...which in this current time of challenging economics would cause many operators to go under.

This is true, love to see some EAS done with a 757ER...lmao

I can land on 4500 feet, can you?

:mad: I can only imagine what the guys that are flying these airplanes now are dealing with, all the stupid passengers comments about the airplane and now this to add to it.:mad: This guys just made your working enviornment more stressfull. Hang in there guys!

Welcome to the suck ... the media is just twisting the knife as hard as they can to make the public squirm.

If we ground all the turbo props then we need to ground all the turbo fans until an adquate solution is found for bird strikes.

Anybody calling for a complete grounding of Turboprops (high-wing or otherwise) is a nutjob. Knee-jerk reactions rarely do anything but slow everything else down.

Agreed, at least my spinning "CUISINART" should increase my engines chances of surviving a bird strike...lol

And dinner on top of it :D

unreal. what an ass. Isn't the Q400 safer than most RJ's anyway?

Stupid lawyer.

What an A*hole.
I've seen recently a guy saying on CNN that the deicing systems on turbo dated form the 50's and was unsafe. What about the propeller? 19th century (even before on boats). Should we fly props?????????????:D

What about wheels? Romans had wheels already, is it safe?

What really upsets me is that in Europe we still suffer on the Q from the SAS incidents. Sure BBD came with an uptaded maintenance schedule for the gear due to faster than planned corrosion but after the last gear failure on a SAS Q (made the prime time news with full video of the landing) did anybody mention after the inquiry that the gear was safe and it was a maintenance screw-up ???:mad:
And SAS grounded its Qs citing "lack of confidence" from customers, passed its fleet to a subsidiary...and later bought new Qs (at a very good price supposely). Did that make the "general large spectrum" news? No. Did the managers whom were claiming in the press their lack of confidence in the Q came out later saying "and by the way we bough some more"? So we're still having, 1.5 years after the issues passengers worried and commenting about the problems SAS had...
So I can't imagine what the Colgan incident might induce.

By the way, when I hear so much crap in the news (I can figure that when I know the topic like flying), how much undetectable crap are we fed in other areas we know little ?:eek: Yeah, it scares me.

For those who have to look in the dictionnary the meaning of "ethics", I do not salute you.

All you can do is register for the site (Really easy, just type in any random email address, which doesn't need to be checked to activate or anything, and a password) and post your comments... Some ppl made some good ones already, it's just a shame you have to click on the "discuss this topic" link to see them. most idiots that believe this kind of crap probably won't understand that concept either. Stupidity breeds similar thought patterns in any aspect of life - computers included. lol. (I work in IT, don't take it personally)

""by frank hummel New Message Reply w/ Quote Email Author Search
Wed, Feb 18 2009 at 8:32:26 AM EST
with all due respect, it looks to me like jim hall is preparing the field for nolan law to file a lawsuit.
by nate alm New Message Reply w/ Quote Email Author Search
Wed, Feb 18 2009 at 10:46:37 AM EST
Apparently 250 kts below 10000 is faster in a JET then 250 kts in turbo prop
by P Christensen New Message Reply w/ Quote Email Author Search
Wed, Feb 18 2009 at 12:21:06 PM EST
"Hall founded a consulting firm specializing in "legislative affairs, crisis management, and transportation safety and security," according to his Web site"

Sounds like a fine example of an ambulance chaser and former Political Appointee.

Just because this guy sat in the big office at the NTSB does not mean he knows anything about icing.

The original icinig certification of the ATR in Indiana was obviously suspect. The boots didn't cover enough area on the wing so they resized them. After the FAA reviewed the certification no less. Also in the ATR accident the pilots had been holding in the ice with the flaps partially deployed for a significant amount of time. That is a no-no.""

Thanks EMB. I'm in Europe so we're a little shielded from this but the Colgan guys deserve our support. Hang on and keep flying them !!!

Great. This guy is really smart. Opening his mouth to scare people, just wait until the media gets ahold of this one...shouldn't be too much longer!

'Ground 'Em!!!'
 

I am dumbfounded by this Hall dude. I think that through similar flawed logic one could argue we should ground all aircraft. I feel deep sympathy for those who lost friends and relatives on that fateful Colgan flight, but in my humble opinion the way to honor them is to investigate thoroughly and try to improve the future. Some see the dollar signs in lawsuits, some see dollar signs by sensationalized news stories, whereas I think aviation professionals see these things entirely differently. God bless you Mr. former NTSB ambulance chaser...

Yank

..........

Actually, this is the EXACT quote as to what Mr. Hall does:

That is a lot different than saying he goes around "suing airlines and pilots".

42,000 Auto Fatalities per Year
 

Following Mr. Hall's logic...

With an average of approximatley 42,000 auto fatalities per year I suggest we stop travelling in ground based vehicles.

FARS Encyclopedia

Between the Aug. '06 Comair accident and the Feb. '09 Colgan accident not one passenger died in an aircraft accident in the United States. During this period approximately 105,000 people were killed on America's roads.

That's 115 per day...more than one human being every 15 minutes. That's just the fatalities not the permanently maimed.

Don't drink and drive...
Wear your seatbelts my freinds...

Winglet

I guess I would have expected a lot more from a former NTSB Chairman. As would most people on this board, I would imagine.

Post this as a comment on that news site! The public looks at that, not these forums..

What if Comair was flying a Q in LEX and Colgan was flying a CRJ in BUF? Then we wouldn't have to ban all aircraft to make traveling on them safe.


I really love this bit...

The Star notes Hall's recommendation would cause "havoc" if implemented, stranding tens of thousands of passengers flying on routes now served by regional turboprops. FAA spokesperson Laura Brown told the paper she sees little chance of that happening.

Maybe they get their information from the show 24, where it's taking 7 hours to get every airliner over the USA back on the ground.

Where could the airline industry possibly find enough small aircraft to replace these deadly regional turboprops on short notice? Not to mention finding hundreds of pilots trained to fly them?

Fewer flights on larger aircraft - i.e., mainline.

You would have to eliminate service to some cities and reroute other flights to combine the market share of two or more cities while just upsizing the aircraft on the rest of the flights.

Fewer flights on slightly larger aircraft = RJ's...THEN upgrade to mainline from that re-routed RJ's city...

A search of the NTSB database pulls up a whole 2 (not including recent Colgan accident) fatal part 121 turboprop accidents related to icing.

And that is this guy's basis for grounding all turboprops? Like my Grandfather used to say, "he talks like a man with a paper a**hole".

Wasn't this the same NTSB head-bozo behind the TWA 800 crash investigation. Ya' know the crash that had the CIA produce the "zoom climb" theory animation. Whereas the 747 managed to climb for several thousand feet without a nose section forward of the wings, and with serious aft CG in order to account for the wittness reports of a missle hitting the plane so they could make believe that it was burning fuel trailing from the plane that wittnesses thought was the trail of the missle that hit it?

'nuf said.

Then ya' got the guy from the FBI, James Kalstrom, who supported this garbage theory.

I wouldn't listen to anything Jim Hall has to say.

Also, I am sure some of you actually think TWA 800 went down due to a spark in the mostly empty center fuel tank too along with AA587 going down being solely due to Sten Molin, the FO, and his use of the rudder after a wake turbulence encounter.

Otherwise, I wouldn't hire Hall to shine my shoes, and I don't need to be a 121 left seat guy to say that either.

Well, there goes this thread ... :rolleyes:

I hope they ground all the turbo-props and give the flying to the better pilots who fly REAL airplanes so I can get my job back.

KIDDING OF COURSE!

It's like the sand-pile effect. To those who haven't heard of it: picture a sand-pile with a never-ending stream of sand pouring on top of it (like an hourglass). Sometimes a small part of the pile collapses and every once in a while a large part collapses. What I'm saying is that small collapses occur much more frequently than larger collapses (so the size of the pile is inversely proportional to the frequency of collapses). Anyways, the correlation I'm trying to make between it and aviation is that usually flying occurs without any problems. Often, very small things go wrong (VSI on a 172 fails in VMC, EFIS Comp Mon message in the RJ,etc). Sometimes, some bigger things go wrong (Lost Comms in VMC, having to punch through a line of thunderstorms during the summer at FL310, etc). Every once in a while we get ever bigger things to wrong (engine failure, landing gear problems). And some of the most rarest of occurences that occur include a crash.

The point I'm trying to make is that these things happen and they will always continue to happen from discovering a bad magneto during run-up to the unfortunate crashes like Flight 1549 and Flight 3407. So to ground aircraft will not stop these problems from occuring. Although we have experienced great technological advances during our time, we now have more things that can go wrong. We cannot stop these events from occuring. They are random events that occur and usually we walk away from them and come back the next day to continue doing something we love but unfortunately, tragic events do happen and all we can do to prevent them is timing (not being caught in a microburst on short final), brains (knowing not to be caught in a microburst on short final if the field is reporting wind shear or a t-storm is right over your approach path) and a little bit of luck.

Just curious and I know I'm way off subject.... But what did happen on these flights?

Deleted. . . . . .

I think the issue here is not whether it should have been reported but that they in aviation should have seen that it was an attempt to stir up fear of turbo props with the flying public, simply to make money off of misery. I feel that they as an aviation news outlet, could have excercised not to run it, due to the fact it would perpetuate falsehoods that would do nothing constructive in getting to the bottom of this tragedy, but only harm aviation in gerneral...But again the media are only concerned if someone else is reporting it than they are afraid they'll lose out on revenue if we dont. They are all the same, its its in my right not to accept the argument "its news" in this case. Mabye Im alone in my thinking, but you cant teach an old dog new tricks...lol

I sympathize with you two, but I think you're being a little hard on Aero-News (and AvWeb reported it too, btw). A former NTSB chairman opining that all large turboprops should be grounded is NEWS and should be reported. Nearly all pilots - and a plurality of the general public, believe it or not - will realize the impracticality, rashness, and idiocy of this statement. Freedom of speech (and the press) is great - we now know where this moron stands.