SOP type Non-precision approach question
 

At your airline, who calls out the Missed Approach Point when it is reached? I never really paid much attention to all of this until I started teaching a class regarding this stuff. At SkyWest, the Non-Flying Pilot does it and I am curious as to who is looking for the runway??? I can't even remember the last time I did one, and have never done one to minimums unless it is in the sim.

Thanks!

I do believe the PNF is the one watching for lights and/or runway environment, cuz the PF is supposed to be flying the plane, right? Okay, I know, I'm a smart #ss!

Yeah...

Thanks for answering the question.

Comair has NFP outside for non-precision approaches.

FP is inside flying the needles.

Pilot not flying/Monitoring is looking for the lights/runway. Pilot Flying will call mins or missed approach point.

That is the way we have it on the ILS, but not the Non-precision. They started using ONLY CANPA's and took the Non-precision out of the SOP completely. Then they realized that some airports it wasn't a good idea to use CANPA's so they re-instated the basic, non-precision approach. Having the NFP call "Missed Approach Point" has go to be a typo. Thanks for the responses.

K-man,

Here on the B757/767 at UPS the Pilot Monitoring calls out "Minimums" to which the Pilot Flying responds with either "Landing, Continuing or Go-Around." Upon reaching the Missed Approach Point the Pilot Monitoring calls out "Missed Approach/No Runway." The Pilot Flying responds with "Go-Around." This is right out of our AOM.

mark

With a few verbiage changes ditto at JB. The only time its an issue for us though is in the sim during AQP recurrents. I have never done one on the line down to even MVFR.

By that, I mean the NFP is looking outside and will make one of the following calls:

1) Go visual
2) Approach lights continue (to be followed by 1 or 3)
3) Go missed

Of course either guy can call missed approach for any reason, but in a textbook non-precision approach it will be the NFP.

Somehow I've mananged to do both at the same time ;)

USMCFLYR

On an ILS PF calls minimums and PM calls, "runway in sight, approach lights in sight, or Missed approach." On NP approaches we calculate a VDP so it happens a little less quick. The pilot flying can call out the VDP point, If the runway environment is not insight at the VDP than a missed approach is imminent. We continue to fly or even start climbing straight in until the published missed approach point than execute the missed approach.

That's what we do too - PNF calls minimums, PF says landing or going around. We do it the same way for all approaches to avoid confusion, although there are a few more callouts on Cat II/III. We call DH, MDA, or AH as appropriate, otherwise all approaches are pretty much the same.

Oh the humanity! :D

LoL yeah Koolaidman...I wouldn't get too worked up about it ;) We haven't had planes fall out of the sky recently simply because PNF peaked inside for a second or two (or vice-versa, of course)!

But your'e right...It's silly. There are so many contradictions in our SOP it makes you wonder if those writing this stuff up have ever been on an airplane themselves!

It's make sense to me to have th PNF looking outside for the runway while the FP stays inside and would be the one who calls "minimums". Very interesting how every airline is different. Again, thanks for all of the input.

It's not humanity HSLD - it is called a HUD :D

So if the PF is concentrating on the instruments (and heads down in the cockpit) and the PNF is looking outside for visual cues - - is it tough for the PF to transition from inside the cockpit to the outside visuals cues if the weather is such that it might be at minimums? I mean if the weather is so bad that you're waiting for that last second before going missed to see the airport environment, then it would seem to be a tough transition for the PF.

USMCFLYR

Depending on your PNF in a multi crew airplane, you can do that in an airliner as well :D.

On a non precision and it's right at mins, it seems as if the hardest thing for the PF is to keep descending once the environment is in sight and you are right at the published VDP, or your calculated VDP right when you see it. Very common to see it but not start coming down, putting the aircraft high and the likely possibility of de-stablizing the approach. Plenty of bent metal out there from this situation.

On a CAT I ILS the transition doesn't seem to dramatic. Especially if there is minimal crab angle, etc.

My airline is only approved for CATII, and I've only done a hand full of them. Even though its the CA looking outside as well as the one thats going to put it on the ground, yes, it can happen quick and be tough to transition.