SkyWest ALPA
 

Any of the SkyWest ALPA guys know why the website is down?
http://www.skywestalpa.org/

Thanks.

Maybe they're re-organizing? LoL

Haven't seen you around these parts in ages...!

haha, yeah I know. I've been staying busy with life. I was just getting a little upset with some of the sutff on the SAPA forums. The "why should I take a pay cut for you" guys are just too much for me. I can't stand the idea of talking about "F" with PBS still giving 90+ lines out to the senior folks. PBS 87 credit???? ...only if it can. IT CAN'T during these times. Company guarantees 75!! NO more NO less. The fact that these guys (me included) got used too high times lines and were living the good life and b*itching about it now and just want to can the bottom group. It's just too much! What ever happen to "hey let's can stand together. 75 hours. No opentime pickup, and get that VLA out there." Man I'm telling you, you might get shot for saying something like that in the SLC crew room. Sorry man, just had to vent. I was hoping to talk to some of the union organizing guys about some ideas but found the website INOP.

Salt Lake City . . .
 

I truly hope the "I got mine . . . too bad for the rest of you" mentality in SLC changes.

I have more than a feeling that with Delta today announcing a 10% reduction in international capacity for the last four months of 2009 SLC will begin to feel more of the pinch like some of the other domiciles are already feeling.

Seniority has its privileges but not being a team player when economic times are tough is absolutely without excuse.

I only hope St. George continues to take a compassionate approach to those FO's and CA's at the bottom of their respective seniority lists.

Hate to say it, but I don't think ALPA will help you out here....we're back to 85-90 hr lines and 10+ min reserve days this month after furloughing 80. The same people you are frustrated with there are just as much an influence in ALPA.

Not trying to discourage ALPA, just don't think it will help on this issue in this climate.

I hear ya man...and I don't mind so much the reduction in block hours, but efficiency has gone through the floor. I'm working another four days a month for fifteen fewer hours of pay...how are the lines in your neck of the woods?

I don't really blame the company for that...with less frequency, there are fewer options to fill up our work days and still position crews for the AM departure. But I wish we had trip rigs.

The attitude that was mentioned above regarding SkyWest was right on. It is disgusting that guys have that attitude and is the major reason why a union will never work there; no unity.

On the SAPA forums, I mentioned seeing who would allow PBS to build them a line down to 65 hours. Guys probably had a heart attacks thinking that this may happen. My thought was that if enough guys VOLUNTEERED to allow PBS to build them a 65 hour we could keep people on property. Not everyone would have to sacrifice their 75 guarantee, only the ones willing to. I thought I was going to get shot the way guys acted on there.

Anyways, I guess the VLA is out and we'll see how that goes.

65 hours . . .
 

While economically it might be a little uncomfortable, I personally would vote IN FAVOR of reducing PBS line awards to 65 hours if that meant keeping pilots working.

If we as pilots will not help each other out when times get tough, then certainly no one will. The content of a pilots character reveals itself when time are tough, not when times are good.

I feel very fortunate to fly for Skywest right now. With our new Voluntary Leave of Absence (VLA) policy I strongly feel that our management in St. George is standing by our pilots. Personally, I never really doubted that our management would make a choice that costs the company more money but substantially helps out those who take a VLA.

The day Jerry Atkins (our CEO) leaves Skywest, is the day Skywest is no longer the best regional flying. (In my opinion)

This goes at ANY company, ALPA or not. ALPA is not the wonderful quick fix people think it is. Look at Mesa. It will also take years at Colgan for ALPA to make any major changes. ALPA is only as strong as the senior folk at any airline let it be, and it usually has the same results as you mentioned above.

I'll tell you, that's ones thing I hope our guys are thankful for here, ALL of our lines, except maybe for literally a handful are 75hrs, as well as COLAS, 40hr Lines, 60hr lines etc.......all to keep as many guys on here as possible. There will always be ADV trips to pick up or open time to trade but having a lot of HIGH value lines really does squash the need for excess pilots

I'll stand by ya anytime in the SLC crew room. I'm FAT based and the sentiment there is to keep as many guys as possible on; it may have something to do with the fact that most of the Bro FOs here would be the first to go in a furlough. Personally, the thought of guys with families out on the street while young, single guys like me are getting 87 hour lines is pretty disgusting. I'll take my low credit lines as long as it takes to get through this. Hell, I've been taking advantage of our over staffing and traveling whenever I can. Most guys are with ya on this one bud

Im a SLC based FO and I am on board 100%. Give me 75 hours if it means keeping people on board. Let's keep everyone off the street. We need to unify and do what it takes.

At XJT, ALPA has worked out a deal for a voluntary leave program in which pilots are able to go on leave for 4 or 6 months with the ability to extend it for an additional 4 or 6 months. The pilot keeps his travel and health benefits and accrues seniority while on leave. They are going to offer another round of leaves. ALPA has also worked out reduced flying lines in which pilots can do 40 or 60 hour lines on a voluntary basis. The company has also offered a early retirement deal to all of its employees in the past and I think ALPA is working on another round of early retirement packages specifically tailored to pilots.

Its true that ALPA is only as good as its members/leadership. Also, you live within a contract and must negotiate anything else that falls outside the contract. Its a two way street between ALPA leadership and their respective management. If one or both of those entities is lacking, then you get results that are sometimes other than ideal. That is not to say that it wouldn't be worse without a union.

Well, you can do something about that by negotiating trip rigs into a pilots' contract.

Those people are probably the vocal minority. They exist at all properties and doesn't necesarily mean that a union wouldn't work there.

At XJT we have a voluntary program where pilots can ask for 40 or 60 hour lines on a month to month basis or on a longer term basis.

Your management will do just enough to keep 51% of their pilots happy.;)

But at ALPA you have the ability to recall your rep if you don't like what they are doing.

They wouldn't furlough in reverse seniority order?

Start filling out the cards!;)

My apologies for deleting some of your post in my post but I only had four comments and your post was quite long. I'll start by saying that I am pro-ALPA, and they did alot of good things for me when I got furloughed from TSA, and they actually got my resume in the door here at SkyWest BUT....

#1 Part time lines coming soon to a skywest near you.
#2 they seem to be doing alot better than 51%, every other airline with a similar staffing problem would've furloughed 6 months ago. Also everyone seems pleasantly surprised with the VLA program so far.
#3 no they wouldn't, yet another reason they haven't furloughed... yet
#4 Like it or not, nothing has changed in the last year to get the additional 21% of the pilot group to change from no to yes. ALPA will probably be at SkyWest someday, that day is still pretty far away in my opinion. If a vote were held today, I believe they'd probably do even worse than they did a little over a year ago.

Maybe apples and oranges but... over at comair you wouldnt find 1 single senior guy willing to accept a 75 minhr line (they barely got 30 to take the early out), the whole place would go nuts. And i havent really seen alpa do much at the regional level. nobody cares about scooter trash least of all the "senior" guys

1. I'm glad you have part time lines coming soon. I was responding to someone who seemed to be soliciting ideas so I stated the ones we have at XJT.

2. They do seem to be doing a lot better than 51%. More like at least 65%. My point being is that they only need to keep 50% + 1 happy. At XJT we have similar staffing problems in which they could justify another 200 furloughs months ago, yet they haven't...yet.

3. Happy to hear that. I only asked because the poster said, "...most of the Bro FOs here would be the first to go in a furlough." I didn't know if that meant that it would be cost prohibiting to furlough in reverse seniority order and the fact that you don't have a legally binding contract that states how you would furlough.

4. You are probably right.

Lower line values across the board are nice. However, you will always have some greedy scum who "volunteer" for the lower time lines & then go pick up open time. :mad: JERKS!!! :mad:

At XJT, they prohibit anyone on a reduced flying line to be able to pick up open time. They can pick up advertised trips though.

Hey SkyWest guys, would you feel differently about a union is it wasn't ALPA?

What if ASA decertified ALPA and went in house? Do you think there'd be a lot of interest in joining that union?

John Pennekamp . . .
 

While my personal opinion is hardly representative of "Skywest pilots in general" here are my personal thoughts:

1. The term "union" is a tough sell at Skywest because the pilots have a good working relationship with St. George.

2. My personal opinion is that when keeping the big picture in mind the pilots here are treated very well by management and in return the large majority of the pilots treat management well in return by doing the best professional job they can when they show up for work.

3. People can say what they want about SAPA being powerless, however, I think they do a good job at keeping lines of communication open with St. George and voicing our concerns and needs as pilots to them. St. George in return is always responsive.

4. If ASA decertified ALPA and went in house I think you would have a much stronger chance of getting Skywest pilots at least to consider their options/proposals with respect to the ASA pilots.

5. Quite frankly though, I don't think Skywest pilots want to take on ASA's pilot problems anymore than ASA wants to take on Skywest's pilot problems.

Interesting points. I would opine that ASA's problems are the same (or very similar to) SkyWest's pilots' problems. We are in this together. And our previously adversarial relationship with management has changed greatly in the last year or so.

I would be open to that. Actually it was tried two union drives ago but the alpa folks alleged that an in-house union would not have the needed financial resources to operate. I haven't tried to run the numbers, so I'm not sure. Of course we have a lot more pilots now than back then.

Of course an independent union at Skywest would have the resources. Even a pilot group of a few hundred pilots can have an independent union with resources to run itself. There have been many in the past. The point I think those people are making is that unless you have something like 5000 members, you wont have the resources that ALPA has from its 50,000+ members. And even then, its always ALPA that congress calls on to testify about anything pilot. Even the Hudson accident had congress asking ALPA to testify about, not USAPA.

I don't think that you would be successful with a union drive right now at Skywest. But there may be a time when management finally throws the pilots under the bus and then it may be possible.

Wake up!
 

Great idea....let's decertify ALPA at all airlines and further erode what little industry unity remains!

Here's an idea, let's all negotiate contracts individually......just like JetBlue. :rolleyes: Then we could really show the management-types where we stand. Afterall, a group of one is much stronger than a group of 50, 60, 70,000+ pilots, right?

NO!
It's time to collectively take a stand......TOGETHER. Stop the uSAPa-like splintering by taking your ball and going home and calling for ALPA decert. Short term sacrifices are going to be necessary to improve our long term careers. That doesn't include attempting to form in-house unions whenever your panties are in a bunch. Rather, we need to start working together to improve ALL our careers.

ALPA, while not perfect, IS THE BEST CHOICE TO DO JUST THAT.....IMPROVE ALL OUR CAREERS IN THE LONG RUN.

ALPA has done nothing to stop the whipsaw at the Regionals. Then again, we are our own worst enemy when it comes to questions of regional -vs- mainline lifestyle. Look at the way TSA pilots are being treated by "Transtates Holdings", which has been structured perfectly to shift flying from one side of the column to the other like a monopoly. It should be illegal for a regional "holdings" company to operate for the same major partner on two or more certificates. It allows them to disinherit all growth opportunity awarded to the success and professionalism of the first group to the less senior, cheaper side of the company without any penalties. Now TSA is even hiring as fast as they can on GoJets, while inconveniencing all of their senior pilots who have their lives established in STL. Why would anybody ever want to join ALPA when they do nothing on issues like this one. As soon as ALPA is willing to step up and work for us, everyone should join. As it stands now they are just another part of the machinery in the airline business game, and have long since lost their clout with many pilots. We are a house divided, and will never gain the lifestyle that we want through traditional methods.

I take it you haven't heard of the Fee For Departure Task Force?

Anyways, ALPA has put in strong scope language in contracts since the Mesa/Freedom fiasco. Unfortunately, it seems that ALPA is reactionary and therefore it takes a whole bargaining cycle to institute lessons learned from management's previous tactics. TSA happens to be next in line in the bargaining cycle since Mesa/Freedom.

What have they done man? Scope language... Whatever. It hasn't stopped us getting "uncut" here at XJT. Mesa has a union, so does TSA, so does PSA, I would gladly work at SkyWest over any of those places, heck if I went to SkyWest when I was offered an interview 4 years ago I'd make more money than I do here.

I like our MEC, but it's not like everything is good here. We just lost over 300 guys and took a pay-cut, but we keep talking about how happy we are here. What a joke.

It's not ALPA's fault, it's that we're still here talking about "raising the bar." You know what'll raise the bar? PILOTS QUITTING, using their degrees and saying F-THIS! F-this $40/hr 4th year pay when my little brother was offered $55,000 out of undergrad school.

I guess I didn't even work 100 days last year, and you can't do that flying a desk, but let's face it. 100 days off, isn't 100 days off if you can't afford to do anything or you have to work a part time job.

Oh yeah, and Garth Brooks sucks...

I think ALPA is turning the corner on the regionals. The task force hasn't done anything concrete but its certainly a very good start. This will take at least one whole bargaining cycle, probably two, before you see results. The problem sometimes is that pilots are their worst enemy.

Anyways, yes, we have been "uncut" here (no thanks to Skywest for that either, by the way). But that scope language, written by an ALPA attorney, is what saved you from what Skywest wanted to do to your job. Scope language that was learned the hard way by your fellow ALPA pilots at Mesa after JO created his alter ego airline, Freedom. You can thank them for that.

Do you honestly believe that Mesa's management, or TSA's management would treat their pilots any better if they had no union? ALPA, or any union, is not the fix all for everything but they certainly can help. Ask yourself, honestly, what it might be like at those places without ALPA and if you still think ALPA doesn't do anything for them, then I have nothing else to say other than we will have to disagree.

And yes, Garth Brooks sucks.

Disagree about what? I say in my post it's not ALPA's fault. It's OUR fault.