Since 1978 more than 100 startups have come and most of them went out of business. Many legacy carries retaliated against them by matching fares, adding routes, etc.

 

I use to work for one of the major airports. One of my duties was preparing "permission to operate letters" for new airlines. It feels like I did prepare about a hundred of those between 1994 and 2001. I can only think of three passenger airlines (flying transport equipment) that are still around today that were started (read totally conceived) between 1978 and 2001.

I don't include any of the regionals or commuters because they are proxy airlines not real airlines.

America West (now purchased USAirways and retained that name)
Midwest Airlines
Airtran (formerly ValuJet)
Jetblue

Onfinal

 

Then next the government can regulate who can and cannot buy/sell groceries and what is a fair price. Then maybe cars. Then maybe houses. Then furniture. Oh, that would be socialism... But, I'm sure you do not consider yourself a socialist. Just when it comes to airlines, right?

 

What an inane post. It takes the brainpower equivalent of powering a lightbulb to call someone a socialist/fascist/hitler/stalin/etc.

 

Actually, yes. Just the airline industry. We keep being told that our industry is one of the major lifebloods to the economic success of the country.

Pre-deregulation was a much better time and place for this industry and the simple truth is that the essence of capitalism, which I love and believe in, just can't be monitored properly to keep out the psuedo-criminal, to just plain criminal, element. And when that element puts in practices that are only for their benifit, we all lose.

We are seeing proof positive of that fact now in these economic times.

 

The federal govt already regulates who can and can't be a 121 operator. And they do this for the sake of public safety, and for reliable transportation. When airlines are trying to penny pinch every aspect of their company, that's not safe. If the company didn't have to do that, I'm sure they could provide a better and safer product to the customer. This is how our government works. We are not a pure free market economy as it is. The government intervenes when necessary. Whether I agree with it or not, it happens, and not just to airlines. I just think that if they are going to regulate it as much as they do already, why not make it actually work for the airlines by allowing them to make a profit instead of laying off thousands of employees every time the economy slows down.

And btw the government already regulates the price of groceries. They pay farmers to NOT grow/sell their produce. And as I recall, you have to have a license to sell cars, and houses as well. I wonder who licenses these people and regulates those industries? No I don't believe in pure socialism, but our country already has that somewhat blended into it. Just like we aren't a pure democracy, or a pure capitalist nation. We are about as close as you can get to it though and still make it work. Pure capitalism leads to monopoly eventually, and that doesn't benefit the majority of the people out there. The government lets businesses compete with eachother, while still ensuring safety and freedom for it's citizens.

 

Given the level of his previous posts, this is nothing new. Apparently alone with his spanking new college degree, he got a Websters Dictionary as a graduation present.

Definitions...yes....Understanding...no...fiber... yeeeees

Airlines have become an essential part of the nations transportation infrastructure and as such, should be re-regulated to the extent required to ensure that carriers do not continually undercut each other and try to make it up by cutting maintenance or margins. And the crap that wages should be allowed to be driven down by the market is just that...crap.

Psuedo airline pilots who embrace this are the same as politicians who claim that families can survive on minimum wage jobs. Let's see them do it.

 

A perfect example (on a micro level) of the purely capitalist state are the american slave plantations of the 18th and 19th century. And it would appear some of our elected leaders and captains of industry would gladly return us to this purer form of capitalism. Some of our fellow pilots, who've drunk the ubber-conservative koolaide, will only wake up when they're provided their daily ration of hog ears and pig tails after setting the parking brake. Personally, I much prefer the current arrangement.

Back to the original subject, I am suspect of any requests by Airline CEOs for a return to some level of regulation. Yet this kind of chatter seems to be increasing, among management who once said, "never". Although I tend to agree with setting additional regulations to the industry, I'm not sure that we are all speaking the same language, and would hope that the various unions are getting ahead of this to insure that labor is protected in any such new system.

 

How are slave plantations an example of a "purely capitalist state"? What is this purer form of capitalism that leaders and captains of industry wish to move us towards? More government involvement or regulation would move us away from capitalism not closer to it.

I love how everyone on this site is so quick to bash or flame posters with differing views (attacking the messanger, not the actual message). Those who have posted above have every right to say what they've said and I respect that--whether I agree with the content or not. Presentation of ideas is one thing, but attacking one for their views personally and insulting intelligence is completely different.

How is being conservative a bad thing? Some could say the same thing about being liberal, I don't think it's wise to criticize with such a broad stroke. I don't want to imply that I'm one or the other, but that's an assumption that can get people in trouble or very upset.

Do posters here feel that pilots are entitled to a high-paying job? Regardless of the consequences? I wished we got payed more and treated better, but until pilots begin to quit because of it, wages aren't going to change. There's too much labor chasing after a limited number of positions, that works to the bean counter's advantage, not the pilot's. By further limiting flying positions, you'll only create a greater surplus of pilots.

 

True Statement. And that is the downfall of re regulating the airlines. As glamorous as it seems, the can of worms has already been opened. If the airlines started making more money and weren't struggling to stay alive, pay wouldn't go up, just executive bonuses. After all, if they can make more money and pay everyone the same, why not?

Aviation isn't the only industry that is having wage decline issues. Look at health care. Who would want to be a doctor or a pilot anymore? As glamorous as it may seem, being paid to fly isn't all it used to be, and most people who "wanted to since they were a kid" are better off making money doing something else and flying on the weekends. Once it is not as easy to become a pilot, instruct for 6 months, then get a job in a jet, fewer people will become pilots and the surplus will slowly go away as the baby boomers retire. But you are right, there will still be a surplus.

And for the record, I am not a socialist/communist. I believe strongly in capitalism, but I struggle with seeing an industry this messed up as well. This didn't happen over night, and no single event is going to fix it. The industry has changed (in some aspects for the worse) and it is nice to look back at what it used to be like in the beginning.