That's not a correct statement. Everyone is entitled to equal and fair representation across the board, regardless of dues generated. Unfortunately what you propose is what ALPA has begun. The smaller carriers level of services have declined and they pay more on a percentage basis in terms of internal billing. Midwest express saw that when they got turned down for funding assistance for a potential merger. They got told to assess their members. Delta on the other hand, got millions.

If a group has been promised that they don't have to pay dues until a contract is agreed to, then it's incumbent on the union to bust their ass and get not just a contract, but a GOOD contract. Where the rub will come is if the promise made to a pilot group was counter to the IBT Constitution. Somehow that wouldn't surprise mess.

To say on one hand "you don't have to pay dues until you have a CBA" and then to say, "if you don't pay, you don't get representation," is an unacceptable conundrum. If that is what was going on with Sowell and 747, it's easy to see why there is such a bad taste in guys mouths.

Bottom line is everyone should get 100% full time, dedicated representation from the local airline level to the top of the union. If not, then the ones not providing it should be thrown out on their asses.

 

I'm curious as to why Sowell's departure means at least another year for a contract. The opposite is more like it; dedicated people working harder for you, regardless of the size of financial pockets of the members.

And no double dipping by the leadership or his cronies!

 

C'mon 72...don't you think it would have been fair to post my reply to give both sides?

Here is is:


727...

I could not agree with you more! Local 747 has been a train wreck and embarrassment to labor for a long time. Don Treichler allowed Gene Sowell to run a personal fifedom with pilots paying for it and getting squat in return. I was a 747 member myself for awhile. After having been ALPA for years, it churned my gut and was happy to be back at an ALPA carrier.

Hoffa's choice of Bourne to lead the Airline Division was a good one. It's pretty apparent that he's been given the green light to get in there and fix things. Let's face it, Treichler gave Sowell anything he wanted and at the same time, from what I've been told by some of his elected people who were not in the "clique" that both of them refused to let Hoffa's people in or let them communicate to the membership. Seems odd, but apparently true. Treichler even refused to put Hoffa's messages in the newsletter. And you are 100% dead on with how Sowell used to brag about properties other than his own. Funny how the one he couldn't get his paws on, ABX, did OK.

So Bourne and his folks have a lot of things to fix. I think he's sent a pretty clear message that "business as usual," won't be happening any more. I talked to one of the office staff down there yesterday...they REALLY answered the phone! She was a bit reserved, which made sense, but was also really happy about what was going on. Seems that he ran that office like his own shop too. Said these new guys are no nonsense and already working pretty hard to try and turn things around for the pilots. Best of all...they're all SEASONED AIRLINE PILOTS!

She said Sowell was really PO'd about Cape Air and trying to start a revolt. Hell, guess he would. Bourne had already given Kalitta the green light to move to Local 1224. Bet THAT was gonna cut into his $$$.

If Bourne turns out to be half the trade unionist he was for his pilots when he was MEC Chairman at Atlas, I'd be looking for big things over there. All of which is good for those guys and our collective profession.

About my posts regarding ALPA. I'm a long time member. And been involved for many years, not a bench warmer at all. ALPA has for many years done a tremendous job for us. But in recent years, the leadership has been sorely lacking. We have guys who want to be politicians and get invited to Washington parties, play golf, drink expensive scotch and smoke fine cigars instead of being the leaders we need. Who say they have "Potomac fever" and need to be near the "big players." That's what PO's me.

There has been financial mismanagement there too. Call up to DC and ask for a copy of the "Fagone report," written by the FDX EVP of the same name who was asked to investigate the allegations and what he uncovered about some folks on the Executive Council who double dipped at their MEC and National and got it covered up by the ALPA President from the same carrier...by letting other pilots fly OT to pay back the money...a HOU based carrier...

To me the ALPA Code of Ethics means something. They have tarnished it and the hard work of so many who came before. And of the tremendous staff of people who are so dedicated to us on the line.

ALPA has done a lot for so many years. It kills me to see what is going on. It stains our reputation. We deserve better.

What really got me was when a recently retired ALPA lawyer who still works there said, "under Dave Bournes leadership as a trade unionist, the IBT will be better equiped to serve the needs of airline pilots than ALPA currently is."

Despite what I'm sure another frequent writer will say about that quote, I heard it myself at 1625 Mass Avenue when a senior staffer asked the question. The man who said it is no rookie. He had over 30 years before he retired to consult to ALPA. He is as concerned as myself and many others.

Look, I want ALPA to be back up there. Two decerts because of lousy national leadership...USAir and Atlas/Polar...THREE failed election drives in '07-'08...JetBlue saying "no thanks"...

Yes, we got Colgan (finally!) and AirTran. Until DAL decides they don't like AirTran.

And Bourne has lost GLA and NetJets (though in fairness they were way down that road before he arrived, so it's on Sowell and Treichlers heads)...he may lose more, who knows?

But I have to give the man credit for doing the right thing. If he keeps it up, it will be nothing but good for all.

Wanna know what's sad? I got an email from a USAir guy today. It was a forward from ALPA about one of the guys down there, a former ALPA EVP who was a superb EVP and MEC Chairman. When ALPA found out he was now helping fix the mess, did they say "good job?"...nope. Here's what they said:

(I blocked out the sender and recepient for obvious reasons)
From: Representation [mailto:@alpa.org]
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:45 AM
To:
Subject: Brannan

Look who’s hooked up with the IBT. What a tool.

I know the sender. We've worked together for years on many things. My only hope is that he was ordered to send this. If not, I'm very sadly disappointed. He knows better.

I think Bourne and his people know they have a LONG way to removing the stink from the past. Let's agree to wish him and his people well.
Last edited by 1515greenlight : 04-17-2009 at 04:51 PM.

 

Hey... Sorry 15, you are right.

I think I vented in 3 different places in this forum regarding IBT 747.. Your posts are always intelligent, well thought, and you obviously know people. It is also obvious that that you have volunteered your time over much of your career to serve other pilots, both through IBT and ALPA.

Bottom line is that we are both fighting the same battle. Any omissions were unintentional on my part. I think that there is also a thread in cargo.

Take care....

In Unity,

B727DRVR

P.S.- Do you think the influx of the Atlas pilots, with their experience in negotiations and strike preparedness, will help IBT 747 pull out of the dive? Or will they just wish that they were still ALPA? This is what happened when all the furloughed pilots went over to Netjets IBT and said, "Hey, we can do this better ourselves". One of them is a prominent former IBT 747 brother, Greg Roundtree, now up to his neck in NJASAP dutes. Take care...

 

72...

No problem. Kudo's to you as well for civilized discourse. This remains something that we're all in together, regardless of union affiliation. As far as I see it, the more we try to find common ground with other folks who work for a living, the better off we all are. Some of us forget that wearing white uniform shirt doesn't mean we're not blue collar workers. Management hasn't!

As to the Atlas guys? They're in Local 1224 with ABX. Bourne as you know, is the former MEC Chairman and from what I know from the Atlas guys, pretty well respected for the work ethic bulldogged representation he gave his pilots. I'd venture to say that the Polar group might disagree; but there are some good things happening there now that they have new leadership...at least they are all working well together and finally working on a contract.

The Atlas guys did a pretty damn good job of setting up strike ops in 2000 through 2002. Very well coordinated and some unique stuff ALPA had never heard of. A couple of thier ANC guys explained to me last year how one of them got a call from their Vice Chairman and in :45 minutes had shut down ANC in support of Polar. He said that obviously the Polar guys would dispute the "strike" issue, but anyway you cut it, :45 minutes is damn good. I'd suspect that if anyone from 747 wanted the help on strike and communications, a call to Bourne's office or to Ross/Brannan at 747 would do the trick. I'm sure they'd help if asked.

Do they wish they were still ALPA? I'm sure there are a few that might, that's human nature. What was interesting to hear was that they went in SPITE of Bourne, not BECAUSE. The drive was underground for months, started by their former Scheduling Chairman. They were fed up with Prater stonewalling the joint contract discussions. Apparently, they had been held up by ALPA National for almost three years past their ammendable date and were getting beaten up because of the loopholes in the CBA.

They have growing pains according to the ones I talk to, but do what all pilots do: ***** and grumble and work on solutions. It's how pilots work everywhere. But they're in negotiations, Bourne apparently was able to move the process on a huge issue for them; the closing of their London base and apparent release of the foreign nationals hired in 2000-2002 to break the union. So that means a bunch of impending furloughs may not happen.

They said Bourne had worked on it for years, the timing finally came to pass. Good on him. If he has that kind of work ethic at the International, good things should happen for all.

Like I said, I'm sure some Polar guys have a different take. And I'm sure this PCL_128, who's never worked there, according to his posts, will give us all the "official ALPA line." But they seem good with things and would no doubt be happy to help anyone who asked or needed input.

 

I'm also not for universal health care and socialism. How is it fair representation when our pilot group pays 60% of the dues but only gets 20% representation? Basically what we're saying is that if I'm paying for someone elses lawyer. That's like the gov't taking SS from my check when I'll never get to see it. To me it's not fair by any means for those of us that are footing the bill.

 

I understand what you are saying, perhaps I didn't word it well. When a group elects to join a union, the union (in this case 747) has a fiduciary responsibility to provide the new group the same level of representation as everyone else...and that should be 100%, all the time.

At the end of the day, you have hit on the basic problem, in my opinion, with how 747 was run. Instead of ensuring complete services and representation for all and lifting the newer and smaller carriers up, some got a higher level of service than others, or no service at all. And regardless of where that group fell in the range, none were served as well as they should have.

Everyone should pay their own way. But it's tough to get to that point when you can't get someone to help get there at the bargaining table to help you negotiate and they are pocketing a lot of money (somebody's) on the side.

Hope that helps.

 

TD you are right about how RAH pays a huge percentage and only got a segment of Gene's time. That is probably half of the problem with the 747 its grown way too big for one man to act as its only lawyer. Hopefully the International can reorganize it in a way that is much more efficient and productive for every airline that contributes to its coffers.

 

I'm not attacking a pilot group. I'm sure that's how it came off. My point was that RAH paid a lot of money in dues only to be given the same amount of protection as everyone else. With so many more pilots we needed more than the one lawyer running around amongst us all. We could have our own lawyer while other pilot groups share one. For the millions of dollars spent we didn't half that in any sort of legal representation. I didn't mean to imply that because you don't pay as much in dues you don't deserve legal defense. Just that when you have two airlines and one is 10x larger than the other it isn't right that one lawyer be split evenly between the two.

 

I've been ALPA before, so I've been on both sides of the fence. The grass is always greener, but have you ever thought that might be because there's a lot of poop over there, fertilizing it?

Your point is one of my single biggest issues I have with the IBT. Not only was one guy running all the shows, he wasn't doing a very good job at it! It's not fair to any of the airlines represented to have one over-worked person doing it all. I never understood how that could be a successful venture.