pay issue
 

A few things,
the pay sucks for regionals and soon majors!

can we blame the new hires, No because they do not negotiate pay!

new hires dont set miniumums etc.

The more experienced guys who are in th ecompany need to pull for higher pay!

That is how it will change.

NWA Delta should strike instead of taking the crappy pay. It will go as low as the seniors will let it go>

am i supposed to go to the interview, get the job and refuse to take it unless they pay me more, they would roll on the floor dying in laughter. but the senior guys dont want to negotiate for us for 2 reasons,
1. they went thru crap and want to make us pay our dues
2. they believe they will be gone soon

its a viciouscycle, the pilot proffesion was doomed to fail from the beggining

It is said of some (if not most) pilot groups that the senior pilots will "eat their young" to preserve what they have. In the case with some of the senior pilots at the majors, companies are dangling pilot retirement in front of them (if it hasn't already been thrown away) in order to get what they (management) want, less pay/less bennies/more productivity.

In the case of regional groups, the senior pilots just don't care about the new guy. Maybe it is because the newbies now days get hired with 300 hours and didn't have to earn their flying job by working tooth and nail to get it. I don't know. Or maybe they figure (at some places) that they will be out of there within a couple of years. Not as likely in the pilot job market as it is today.

I know it sounds stupid to aspiring airline pilots, but the pay would only increase if the pilot supply was not there. That means until folks decide not to pursue flying as a "working hobby" then there will always be pilots willing to fly for peanuts. Pilots are dime a dozen and regional airline management folks know that so they pay crap. They know a new guy is willing to accept less than substandard pay for a job that requires a technical skill and more stringent regulation and testing/checking than most other professions.

An example of how a tight job market for pilots would only aid in increasing pilot pay:

American Eagle in their last TA, gave new hire pay a substantial upgrade due to the fact that no one wanted to work there. They needed to do something to make the airline more attractive to new hires, so they increased new hire pay (which still sucks) more than the agreed upon rate that is stated in Eagle’s contract (this is called the IAI calculation if I remember correctly). I don’t think it helped much because most know how fruitless a career at Eagle can be (measured in upgrade/advancement opportunity). So this is an example of what a tight job market could do for all airline pilots, but sadly I don’t think that day will ever come.

directbears
 

DB,

So what was your last day at Eagle like? Were you happy or sad? What was managements response when you told them that you were leaving the profession? Did you have another flying job in mind when you left?

SkyHigh

It was like any other day, except I had to go to the CP office to turn my stuff in. They acted like they cared, but you could tell it was fake. I don't take offense to it though. Just another pilot walking out the door not to return. I think my CP was a little surprised to here that I was getting out of aviation all together though.

As far as being happy or sad, I wasn't either. Really I was kinda relieved. I was relieved that I got out of something that was really starting to affect my personal life. I think that was another reason I got out. Other than the obvious time away from home, I could see it taking its toll on my family because it was affecting how I was. I had poured everything into that career for about 6 1/2 years at Eagle and got nothing back in return really. It started to make me bitter and cynical. I was starting to act and react in ways that I never had before, and again it was taking its toll on my family. I think only an Eagle pilot (or ex-Eagle pilot really) would know what I'm talking about. The culture at AMR is a horrible one. There is never really any good news at that place, and even when they try to give you some good news, they have to follow it up with bad news just to keep everyone in check. Like, "we made great profits for this quarter, but there is still the possibility of losing some flying to our competitors." It got old and tiring.

Sure, I had some opportunities that I passed up that probably would have made a difference in whether or not I would still be flying right now, but I know that I would still have a hard time being away from my family and the constant insecurity that comes with this industry. I could have left Eagle for another flying job, but seeing the state of the industry and seeing the writing on the walls of where it is headed made me not even want to pursue it. I gave myself a goal when I got into the airline industry. I gave myself 5 years to get to a major airline (this was the mid to late 90's) and if it didn't happen I was getting out. Well, I abused myself a little longer than I had planned, but I did follow through and got out.

Do I miss it? Sometimes. I definitely miss flying airplanes. Do I think of giving it another go? Sometimes, but then I think of my family and how it would affect them and once again change the way I am. So, I don't see that in the cards right now.

Sorry to bore everyone, but skyhigh asked so I let loose.

Wow
 

Wow, Thanks for your story. I have an almost identical one. So, what do you do now?

SkyHigh

DB thanks for opening a spot for me :) Actually I would never fly at Eagle after what one guy told me, I feel sad for those academy guys who have to go there because they are the only one that will hire them with such low hours.

Acutally our pay is going to go UP quite alot.

Day
 

Your day will come BT !!!


SkyHigh

I remember my last day at Eagle back in the early 90's...I came in from a trip and took my manuals, ID's, and CR key to the base manager and droped it on his desk and said "Good Bye"...That was about 9am and I was the 5th guy who quit that day...lol...I didn't have a job lined up, but I did have a Graphic Design Company, so cash flow was not an issue...I got hired a month later at a supplemental Airline as a L-1011 FO and was a Captain on a DC-10 a year later for another company...But I have to add that when I was hired at Eagle I was the low time guy in the class with 4000 hours and most of that was Jet time too. I will agree that AMR is a crappy place to work for any extended period of time...Cheers