And that comes from someone who is willing to tell you who he is, and knows how things operate! Even with issues we dont see eye to eye on the above is absolutely correct. None of us could go back with being less then year seniority, and think anything less. Couldnt have said it better man!

Because an internet forum really tells you a lot about a person? Hmm yes that is indeed very logical.

I bet your the smartest guy you know. Your awesome!

Maaaan this thread went downhill!



Good info, thanks!

Yeah, talk about thread creep.

Go get 'em tiger....and John, try to stay employed this time! ;)

Everyone knows the "I Love PSA" thread is better anyway.

JR was in today. Stated simply, 10 recalls were to replace upgraded Captains. The 8 others are to cover increase of flying. We will be flying our rears off and as of now, there are no more intentions of recalling any more. They are not going to do so, to furlough. Now again its JR so this could change tomorrow, but it does make sense. He also said of the 10 Upgrades, 9 have already failed upgrade training before. So from their stand point they are slightly hesitant on that, because they need them for Junes-August increase of flying. And they already know August flying will be decreased again.

Does anyone know who of the next 8 or so are or will be bypassing?

How long were those getting recalled out on furlough?

8 months. (this is just to make the message long enough)

http://mamadance.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=250&h=188

Sorry dude, had too, all your posts are depressing for us on the outside :p

During the upgrade process you can fail your first checkride. Then you retrain (usually the next day) and take another checkride. If you fail that, you are sent back to the line as an F/O for 6 months. You can then bid on any captain vacancies after 6 months. If you fail your next two checkrides you are done.

This happened to my sim partner in upgrade. He opted to go back to the line on his first attempt, after not getting recommended for the checkride. On the second time though (with me) he pinked twice.

Thanks for clearing that up for us Nasa. Apparently the guy who has worked here less than a year doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. Maybe FO's in training status should focus on FO training?

Nasa,

Do you really need to name names when it comes to who is responsible for pilots failing upgrade training and getting fired? Regardless of who is in charge, if you fail upgrade training twice, something is wrong. Please edit and remove that person's name from your post.

No Problem Johnny.

Just trying to clear stuff up. FO's can focus on whatever they want.
No, I will not. Sorry.

Who are you referring to? He just said the same thing. You can do it up to a third try no? Thus you get three attempts? Maybe someone who has been at the company more then a year should know their contract and be a good union pilot? :)

Is that like being a good puppy? The union should be happy some of us aren't peeing on the carpet in the crew room.

Lets work on your math.

First training attempt includes 2 checkrides.

Second training attempt also includes 2 checkrides.

2 checkrides + 2 checkrides = 4 checkrides or
1 training attempt + 1 more training attempt = 2 training attempts

Neither of these is a 3

Oh Johnny, we let you fly our planes? I know of at least two individuals whom were in an upgrade class right before we downgraded and furloughed the last bunch. They were not recommend for their checkrides, due to the fact mgt knew we were about to downgrade some.

Regardless of how you look at it, you get your initial attempt that means you get two chances during that upgrade attempt. At which point you can accept 6 months later, and have your third attempt at passing your Captain Upgrade PC. So that would make a total of 3 attempts? I know its complex math, and many at PSA do not even have college degrees; but even without one you should be able to do that math.

You don't need a degree from UND to push buttons and be yelled at by passengers.

You guys have some serious hostility going on here!! I'm used to this kind of hostility in the my regional is better than your regional b.s. But you guys work for the same company, I'm sure there are plenty of ways mgmt and scheduling are screwing you over that you can gripe about instead.

He is correct.

If you did not get recommended b/c the company stopped upgrades, I assume that the company would not hold that against you. However, that is another gray area in the contract.

Like I said, my sim partner did not get recommended on his first attempt, went to the line for 6 months. He then went though training again, and failed the checkride twice. He is no longer with the company.

Feel free to disagree with me though.

Maybe maths not the problem but rather your ability to read.

3. A pilot will be provided the following opportunities to complete his initial, upgrade,transition or requalification training:

a. A pilot who fails to pass his first checkride will be provided additional training as determined by the Director of Flight Operations followed by a second checkride. The second checkride may be monitored by the FAA.

b. A pilot who fails his second checkride on his first attempt to qualify will return to his former position, if available. If unavailable, he will return by seniority to a position for which he is or has been qualified. If there is no such position, he will exercise his seniority to obtain any position systemwide. The pilot will not be allowed to bid another vacancy requiring training for a period of six (6) months. If he is unable to obtain any position by the process above, he will be given additional training and a third checkride. Failure of the third checkride will be dealt with at Company
discretion.

c. Pilots withdrawing voluntarily from training at any time will be returned to the line in accordance with paragraph b., above.

d. The Company may elect not to treat a withdrawal for personal hardship reasons as an attempt to qualify.

e. Pilots entering training for a second attempt must demonstrate the required proficiency after completing training for the second time. Pilots demonstrating the required proficiency upon completion of training will be given at least two (2) opportunities to pass the proficiency check. A pilot who fails to qualify on his second attempt may be dealt with at Company
discretion.

Now, your an FO upgrading to CA. You complete the first attempt at training and are signed off for the PC. You fail the PC, you retrain, you fail the PC again. This explains section 3.a

You head back to the line, because of course your a qualified FO and you bid your old job back. Six months goes by, you bid for CA upgrade once again and your awarded...
This explains section 3.b

You complete your second attempt at training and are signed off for the PC. You fail the PC, you retrain, you fail the PC again. You get axed.
This explains section 3.e

Thats two attempts at training and four checkrides total. Once again I dont see a three in that.

However in section 3.b it does refer to a third checkride.

"A pilot who fails his second checkride on his first attempt to qualify will return to his former position, if available. If unavailable, he will return by seniority to a position for which he is or has been qualified. If there is no such position, he will exercise his seniority to obtain any position systemwide. The pilot will not be allowed to bid another vacancy requiring training for a period of six (6) months. If he is unable to obtain any position by the process above, he will be given additional training and a third checkride."

Since the CA upgrade on his first attempt can just go back to being an FO, this doesn't really apply to them does it?

And since the whole part of this thread was about CA upgrades, three does not really factor in does it?

That being said, if you can't see this, than I don't know what else to write. This will be my last post on this topic because I'm just really getting bored with it.

Thanks for trying to lighten things up. For your whole hearted attempts I'm promoting you to Admiral Krunch!:D

Wow...psa's finest ... you have fun there mr. wholly owned and please flow on through to mainline you'll fit right in to that 190.:p Naming names is never cool. Karma's a b*%tch!

I don't want to flow up, I want to flow out of the US Airways family.

Good luck in your future rjjunkie.:)

6 More Upgrades announced. I am not saying we will be, but each upgrade is typically followed with a recall. We shall see. I just hope we arent getting too far ahead with this and we can sustain these numbers into the fall.

Any word on how the first group of upgrades is going?

I finished last week in DAY. I was not aware when their actual class started? I know they recalled a line pilot back to help the crew in the training department. They were talking about updating various items this week. When is that first class of upgrades starting? I know they are in the sim after us but I was not aware of their date (hadnt really paid attention to that). My guess is they'd do fine. Many have been through it before and just had mistakes at sim etc. Perhaps I'm just wanting them to do fine but I think they will.

Now that Air Wisconsin has called back for the 3rd time is PSA looking to bring back more? It seams like when one calls pilots back the other does as well.

Maybe but I wouldn't count on it. I hope they do I still have friends on the street. Poor some of my 40 on the streetz fo my homies yo.

I've been pouring some for the homies every chance I get Capt.

Hey! That's not my beer is it? Son of a ..........!!!

Why would I pour out my beer? that would be irresponsible.

Any more news on recalls this year. I see Air Wisconsin has more coming back and didnt know if PSA was going to do the same.

So far 18 recalls is it. I saw that AWAC has two more recall classes in june. That's great news for them.

...and now AWAC is replacing PSA on flights to at least one destination.

And PSA is replacing AWAC fying as well? MCI to name at least one.

You guys can have MCI....that flight sucks!!!!!!!!!! lol

AWAC is replacing PSA and PSA will be replacing Piedmont flights in Septembr. This is a cut throat industry.