Wasn't there recently a fee reset or something resulting in lower rates for our fee per dep.?

[quote=duvie;605088]Haha, I'm not one to jump into these arguments, but I'm gonna have to raise the BS flag really, really high on this one. You stayed at Mesa to get your PIC time, not to improve the industry.

I am an ALPA member and volunteer to improve the industry.

Very noble of you.

That's my understanding. So Inc. went from raping DAL to making a "modest" profit.

If DAL got "raped" while outsourcing, whipsawing, and B-scaling small-jet pilots...they had it coming.

quote=duvie;605088]Haha, I'm not one to jump into these arguments, but I'm gonna have to raise the BS flag really, really high on this one. You stayed at Mesa to get your PIC time, not to improve the industry.[/quote]

"Noble". This an interesting choice of a word, Nigel. I am assuming you intended sarcasm. If I am wrong, I apologize. It is interesting to me that some on this forum try to cloak themselves in "nobility" because they work at one of the "good regionals".

Rickair7777 describes his ordeal at Mesa with the poignance of a holocaust survivor. It seems to me that he is trying to portray his lateral move to SKW as his contribution to the cause of lifting the pilot profession. It is just as likely that he jumped for 2-3 more dollars per hour and another day off a month, not for some altruistic desire to help all pilots. Perhaps these days he encourages himself by endulging the perception that his QOL is fantastically better than those who now work at Mesa. I cannot help but wonder why he spends so much energy being venomous toward pilots who work at a company he hated and left? Does he regret his decision at some level? Should he have hung in there, built PIC time, and gone on to SWA while the hiring was good? Did the jump to SKW cause him to miss the major's hiring boom?

Another poster refers to pilots at my company as "bottom-feeders". This person flies Ejets on routes that used to be served by B717's flown by pilots at twice the pay.

Anyone who feels "noble" because of the particular regional they work for is foolish. Nearly every regional is flying aircraft that match the speed and size of aircraft formerly flown by major airlines. The pilots doing so receive much lower wages. Pilots need to stop snapping and snarling at each other for table scraps.

The Dash Whisperer

I agree. But unfortunately DAL gets to play their game on their court.

Latest skywest news just for you slaphappy:

J.A will attempt to purchase another regional (such was the case with XJT) for the purpose of low balling them into whatever rate their major partner wants....and of course, J.A. will back out of the deal once that's taken place.

Just for you slap, go nuts now :cool:

It would only be taken as flaim bait if you were just thinking of yourself. I'm not kidding. I am 110% serious about this. Look, I could have gone to Mesa years before I got hired at XJT. I decided I didn't want to work for Mesa and stay at AMF instead. We all have our points of view on the matter but suffice it to say that in order to get dignity, self-respect, and QOL, we all need to sacrafice a little now for the greater benefit in the future.

It is an insurance policy. I would love for this type of language to be put in place before anyone loses aircraft. This way all pilots will have the protection but there is nothing wrong with doing it after the fact either.

I've already asked myself that question. I would have not put the idea out there if I wasn't willing to do it myself. I think that it should start at the first pilot group that finds themselves in the situation of gaining another airline's aircraft. Actually, I'd like to see the language in all of our contracts before that even happens. You have to look at it as an insuracne policy. You may be upset if another airline's pilot knocked you donw in seniority. But it works the other way around as well. It may be YOUR airline that loses aircraft and YOU may find yourself with a job and seniority at another airline.

Reality is that this is what is needed to mitigate the musical airplane game that majors play with the regionals. Until we can do that, the profession will continue to suffer. Today's great company can be tommorrow's bad company. Just look at ACA, AWA, and even Mesa, they were all good companies to work for at one time.

This is irrelevant of wheter you saw anything coming or about being too generous. This is about doing what is good for the profession. It would be great if we can do it before anyone goes out of business. It should be done regardless. Preferential hiring is EXACTLY what management wants...more pilot recycling to first year pay!

Its not the only thing ALPA feels is the way to end whipsaw at the regional level but its the major component. ASA already has this language in their contract (that applies to SKW pilots as well) to prevent whipsaw by Inc. It is no different.

As for the problem of negotiating for it, yeah its going to "cost" something during negotiations. Or it may require a possible strike to get it. I think its worth it.

By the way, not all managements are against it. Sure, they may use it to get something in return during negotiations. The Comair MEC and their management had an agreement in principle with the XJT MEC for this sort of thing until all hell broke lose when SKW tried to buy XJT.

Can you explain?

We all need to stop fighting each other and try working together to make the profession better. Having anymosity or resentment for Mesa pilots does not help.

And how is that different than SKW? Is it just because they pay you more? How many people get fired at Mesa versus Skywest? Honest questions.

You forgot about the part that Skywest will be paid $9 million by the major airline for their troubles.;)


By the way, even airline CEOs and others outside the industry see seniority transportability as the way to go forward in our industry/profession.
Is Seniority Killing the Airline Industry?
Is Seniority Killing the Airline Industry? - BusinessWeek

I don't feel noble for going to a good regional, I feel lucky more than anything. Your reasons for going to Mesa in the first place are your own, but I seriously doubt that you made the decision to stay there rather than make a lateral move to another regional to help Mesa pilots. Companies like SKW, XJT, AWAC and ASA have better work rules than many of their major counterparts. I've personally seen a CAL and XJT guy compare company policies on issues, with XJT having the more favorable conditions 4 out of 5 times. If you ever jumpseat on United mainline, ask them about their work rules, they're atrocious.

As for Republic's 175s, besides the Midwest operation, its up to the legacy airline pilots to manage scope; we have no bargaining chips in negotiating with management to decrease the size of aircraft we fly. What incentive could we possibly give them to get rid of their most profitable assets? Just like guys leaving the regionals for majors who cease to fight for improvement, there is a top tier of legacy pilots who would rather see an hourly pay raise than fight to get 70 seaters on property.

Again, I hope you're sticking it to JO, but I don't believe the martyr story. You're at Mesa for your PIC time because as evidenced by the lack of lifers at Mesa, the work rules suck.