Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Regional (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/)
-   -   PAY - Idea (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/39633-pay-idea.html)

johnnysnow 05-02-2009 09:18 PM


Originally Posted by Dan64456 (Post 604597)
In this "great" country, people do NOT have equal opportunity. Ask the kids attending (or dropping out of) Chester High in PA, or any public high school in North Philly, or Harlem. It's the ghetto. I can GUARENTEE you they don't have their choice of what prestigious university they want to attend at their feet. But you get all fat and happy because you had the choice as the American dream would advertise, but you forget about the rest of the world (or country) that is less fortunate. Some people grow up not even knowing what a University is.

So whats your solution?

ImperialxRat 05-02-2009 09:39 PM


Originally Posted by FlyJSH (Post 604771)
It is unrealistic to think that anyone of us can go from dirt poor to Rockefeller rich.... just because we are "above average". But with hard work, cultivating the right contacts, and making fewer dumb choices, each of us can improve our life.

And that in turn gives our children and family members a better opportunity to improve their lives.

The rich got rich through hard work at some point in their family line... You could get the ball rolling for your family.

Purpleanga 05-03-2009 01:53 AM


Originally Posted by Dan64456 (Post 604597)
In this "great" country, people do NOT have equal opportunity. Ask the kids attending (or dropping out of) Chester High in PA, or any public high school in North Philly, or Harlem. It's the ghetto. I can GUARENTEE you they don't have their choice of what prestigious university they want to attend at their feet. But you get all fat and happy because you had the choice as the American dream would advertise, but you forget about the rest of the world (or country) that is less fortunate. Some people grow up not even knowing what a University is.

I don't agree with that. Look at the President, not because of his color but his background. He was born a nobody and a minority at that with no traditional parents. If that is not equal opportunity. I don't know what to tell you. As far as the ghetto, it's about probability not because of opportunity. Someone from the ghetto is less likely to do well in school, which means no college, which means no career, which means poverty. It's a cycle.

WIFlyer 05-03-2009 04:37 AM


Originally Posted by ImperialxRat (Post 604863)

The rich got rich through hard work at some point in their family line... You could get the ball rolling for your family.

The rich got rich by lying, cheating, stealing land and forcing the poor to work in horrible conditions for less than poverty wages and then passed down wealth through generations. There are very few 'rich' families around who got there by respectable means. Rich people are some of the most morally corrupt people (some, not all but some) but my thinking is mush more socialist than most people's.

DYNASTY HVY 05-03-2009 04:52 AM

We have more opportunities than most people in other countries could ever hope for and yes some people do fail at realizing the American dream.
It's what you do with said opportunity that counts.

Fred

BTW cute avatar JS.

Lowlevel 05-03-2009 05:09 AM


Originally Posted by bryris (Post 604070)
Here is why this won't work:

Ticket prices need to be low. Costs needs to be even lower in order to juice any profit margin out that can be gotten.

Raising ticket price is against this logic. Its reduces the competitive edge for that company = less money for the company (not you).

If the ticket prices could be raised, even a cent, the profit gained wouldn't go to you. It is the airline's ticket, their seat, their airplane, their route, their contract, their name, etc. You are seat meat - instantly replaceable by the next guy in line.

Pilots are LABOR. We don't feel that way, but they do. The "Salaries/Wages" line item needs to be as low as it can be. Regardless of how low it goes, people still sign up. If it weren't for the unions, F/O pay would rival that of a 16 year old flipping burgers and pilots would still sign up - I promise you they would.

Once again, it sucks, but it is just the way it is. Unions are a double edged sword, but you can thank them profusely for the fact that your pay is even $22/hour. The market supply of pilots could drive that way lower if it was allowed to.

First year FO pay is almost the same as a 16 year old flipping burgers. Think about this, if you got a regular job, 40 hours a week, you only need to make $10.31 an hour to match a first year FO pay. Heck, you don't really need anything above a HS diploma (if you even need that)to make $10.31 an hour, but instead you spend $20K to $50K for flight school and more for a college education...and wind up making the same thing.
But hey, you didn't have to accept the low pay. You could have went somewhere else, I suppose. If people stopped taking the job for the low pay, something would have to be done. Then again, the government would probably make Airline Pilot a government position and fire everyone (like ATC in the 80's).

As far as airline ticket prices, you should never be able to fly in a plane cheaper than it is to drive your car! That's that. Raise the prices to where they once were and people will still fly, not as often, but still fly. Business travelers will continue to fly, it's a requirement in the global market. People will take their vacation once a year, after saving for it, instead of showing up in their pajamas and jetting off to grandma's once a month for $100.

NYC to Disney - 1,113 miles
Airline ticket $89.00 ($0.079 per mile), 2.5 hours
Auto - $140.00 gas (at $2.50 average price), 17.5 hours

If your time is worth anything, that needs to be figured in too (let's face it, people fly because it saves time). So, what is your passenger's time worth? Let's just use $10 an hour as an example (Burger flipper heading to Disney).

Savings by flying - 15 hours
Gas - $140.00
Time - $150.00
Total $290.00 (not including regular operating cost such as oil & maintenance. Also, not including food stops along the way.)

So, a ticket from JFK to MCO, one way, should never sell below $290.00

Some peoples time is worth much more than $10 an hour, this was just a simple example.

bryris 05-03-2009 07:23 AM


Originally Posted by Lowlevel (Post 604906)
But hey, you didn't have to accept the low pay. You could have went somewhere else, I suppose. If people stopped taking the job for the low pay, something would have to be done.

This is likely a rhetorical question. But personally, I resigned from my first regional job for this very reason. I am worth more than this.

Flying is now a hobby again. I am enjoying teaching people and enjoy zooming around at 2,000 feet with no SOP.

But you can kill one ant on the ant hill and it doesn't go away. When hiring comes, there will be plenty of guys willing to take my seat for no pay. The problem will continue ad infinitum. It is the nature of doing a thing that so many love to do for a living.

BigBallzMagee 05-03-2009 03:29 PM


Originally Posted by Lowlevel (Post 604906)
As far as airline ticket prices, you should never be able to fly in a plane cheaper than it is to drive your car! That's that. Raise the prices to where they once were and people will still fly, not as often, but still fly. Business travelers will continue to fly, it's a requirement in the global market. People will take their vacation once a year, after saving for it, instead of showing up in their pajamas and jetting off to grandma's once a month for $100.

NYC to Disney - 1,113 miles
Airline ticket $89.00 ($0.079 per mile), 2.5 hours
Auto - $140.00 gas (at $2.50 average price), 17.5 hours

If your time is worth anything, that needs to be figured in too (let's face it, people fly because it saves time). So, what is your passenger's time worth? Let's just use $10 an hour as an example (Burger flipper heading to Disney).

Savings by flying - 15 hours
Gas - $140.00
Time - $150.00
Total $290.00 (not including regular operating cost such as oil & maintenance. Also, not including food stops along the way.)

So, a ticket from JFK to MCO, one way, should never sell below $290.00

Some peoples time is worth much more than $10 an hour, this was just a simple example.

100% agreed.......good post.

Mason32 05-04-2009 01:06 PM


Originally Posted by Dan64456 (Post 604051)
I apologize if this has been brought up before or may sound cliché... But I've been thinking.

If they would add 25 cents to the total cost of a ticket per passenger per hour of flight, and give it to the F/O, or even split it between the captain and the F/O, this would help bring the F/O above the poverty line. This would add up to like 700 extra dollars per month (On a 37 seater with seats filled) if it were just going to the F/O... No one would complain about the quarter either.

Why hasn't this been considered?


If they could get 25 cents more per pax, they would... and they would keep it themselves, since it is already a given that if you won't take the job for poverty wages and a non existant quality of life...
the next guy will.

Mason32 05-04-2009 01:08 PM


Originally Posted by WIFlyer (Post 604896)
The rich got rich by lying, cheating, stealing land and forcing the poor to work in horrible conditions for less than poverty wages and then passed down wealth through generations. There are very few 'rich' families around who got there by respectable means. Rich people are some of the most morally corrupt people (some, not all but some) but my thinking is mush more socialist than most people's.

deleted.......


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:11 PM.


Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands