Pardon my Ignorance, But after reading this entire post I'm dang near just annoyed with it. Implying a military pilot is better than any civillian pilot to me is kind of like saying. MP's or SP's are better at policing than a civillian police officer??? Are they both not dedicated? Are they both not professional? I have seen some egos and some humble statements from both sides here and I think we should (from both sides) respect one another. I could rant my own opinion but I will save your time. Fact Is we All (I hope) Love flying. I do. Hey Jog your memory with this. Why do you fly? What was it that got you going and said to yourself (I want to fly)? I bet you all would have some cool stories...

1. No, its not. Civilian police are probably better, mainly because they're not teenagers.

2. Military pilots have superior TRAINING, that is fact, this does not automatically make you a better pilot than Joe Schmoe Banner Tow, there are bad apples everywhere.

3. As has been said a half dozen times, we Military Pilots believe a Civilian pilot is capable of being a superior pilot, despite not having the OPPORTUNITY to go to a Military Flying School.

4. Ignorance Pardoned.:)

If your comparing average scores, group to group, than I see what your saying and will have to agree. I think I misunderstood what you originally posted.

Real gracious of you to think that civilians are "capable of being a superior pilot." And who died and made you the judge of picking out superior pilots?

No one here is disputing that military training is second to none.

I disagree with that premise period. Military screening has no direct correlation with IQ required to being a smart airline pilot. All it proves is that a candidate has an aptitude for flying including spatial orientation and situational awareness on PAPER. It is at the weeding out process during the actual flight training that sifts out most talented. Even then many slip through the crack as evidenced by the accident figures.

As someone indicated, many "smart" civilian pilot candidate do not opt for the military. Unless you take a random sampling of statistically significant sample of all military pilot selectee versus all civilian pilot students, the statement that military pilots are on average smarter than civilian pilots is an unsubstantiated rumor. I've seen a lot of dumb and smart pilots on both ends, civilian and military.

Military does provide a superior training, discipline and unique flying experience you can't get anywhere else. Take it for what it's worth from a guy trained as a civilian first then and in the military.

another good comment....

Lightening...there was one guy early in this thread... River6 who seemed to believe that military pilots had no skills ..... and frankly that is what about 85% of this thread has been about.

Nobody said that. What was said was that statistically, the average IQ score of military pilots(as a group) is higher than the average IQ score of civilian pilots(as a group). This is because the military process selectively reduces the scoring range by screening, which is not done in the civilian world. In fact atpcliff makes note that this has NO bearing on the quality of the final product.

That's funny, that's exactly what atpcliff said.

That was me who said that. So who are you arguing with again?

We are not talking about individuals, but rather groups as a whole. Fact is the civilian pilot group has lower scorers that drag down the average. This does not occur in the military group because of the selective screening barrier. But once again, both of us have said that this has NO bearing on the quality of the pilot. Hey atpcliff, why am I arguing your point.:D

Thanks for reiterating what both of us have already said.

The word "smarter" is polarizing. Maybe atpcliff could have used a different term. Regardless, I have no problem making the statement that military pilots, as a group, score statistically higher on IQ tests than civilian pilots ,as a group. That's coming by the way from someone who was never in the military.

Does that make the average militray pilot a better pilot than me? No. Does that make the average military pilot smarter than me? No

Next time read the entire thread first so that you can accurately judge the content and meaning of our posts. Thanks for playing.

I guess I should have made it clear in the beginning that I disagree with the first statement by Atpcliff and of your reasoning for agreeing with on that particular issue. Yeah, I did read your entire post and I am not disagreeing with your entire post. You are the one who needs to read my entire post, try to understand what I am trying to say and then decide.

Never said military pilots are better pilot than you. Don't know you so how can I make that judgment.

The argument about IQ is idiotic because of the reasons I stated. Need to take a statistically siginificant sampling of the people involved to make a statement like that. It is not valid unless proven statistically correct. Reread my post. Some one dragging down others in the average is irreelevant. Anyone who has taken any statistics course knows what I am talking about.

People need to get off this topic and discuss something constructive. I've seen SMART pilots from both ends of the sector, and I have seen DUMB pilots from both ends also. It all depends on individuals. There's no such thing as "on average some sector is smarter than the others." Who defines smarter to begin with. No argument with Atpcliff on his assessment regarding the better quality of training in the military. As far as the weeding out process, that selection criteria in the military is a little different than the civilian counterpart. Just because you get through the particular training does not necessarily mean you are "smarter," it just means you have the knack for the types of skills required to pass that "type" of training.

Bottom line, superior training in the military, and unique types of flying experience in the military but at the end of the day who is smarter depends on who is defining that term "smarter."

Are you saying they are not? Or are you trying to read more into the statement than there was? My post was in defense of Civilian pilots.

I was trying to be gracious. I have flown with plenty of guys at XJT that would make fantastic Military pilots. I know quite a few Mil guys that would be crappy Airline Pilots. Notice I tried to make it abundantly clear to those incapable of critical thinking, by putting in ALL CAPS my opinion that becoming a Military Pilot is an OPPORTUNITY for the fortunate, not a birth right of "superior" people. As was posted earlier, most of us are responding to the earlier tone of the thread that Mil pilots are crap.
Nothing I have said contradicts anything you said. Why again are you attacking my post?

This is a discussion forum you know, you can be the thought police and respond like that to any thread: "Who died and made you the judge of...." I guess by your reasoning only HR departments should be on here expressing their opinions and judgments on this matter.:rolleyes:

Likewise.

If that was your intended meaning then we are in agreement. I must have misread your statement as being pompous. I got tired of all these people going on about the IQ and intelligence of civilian pilots versus military pilots which is a worthless argument.