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Quote:

Originally Posted by BURflyer (Post 610306)

If you are dumb enough to commute from Seattle to the NY area for a 1300 dollar per month job on 10 days off all the power to you.

While I agree the commuter is responsible for his/her rest before duty, and it's not the company's problem, I really find the above statement to be sorely misguided. It seems you're speaking from quite a privileged viewpoint, and that's nice for you, but other people's lives maybe aren't so clean cut as yours.

Someone correct me if a i am wrong, as i was still a flight student when 9-11 happened. Didn't TSA try to ban jump seating in flight deck, which failed essentially because of the amount of commuters it would screw over?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SebastianDesoto (Post 610371)

I believe it was banned shortly after 9/11 but then came back once CASS was established. Now someone correct me...was CASS before or after 9/11?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinpusher007 (Post 610392)

I believe it was banned shortly after 9/11 but then came back soon after once CASS was established. Now someone correct me...was CASS before or after 9/11?

CASS was implemented after 9/11. CASS was a direct response to the public attempts to limit who should be in the cockpit. I won't detail the procedures of CASS, but CASS allows airline pilots to commute to work using other airlines.

Look, you see the video, you see how much of a chance this guy had to recover, the nose oscillated about 4 times before he rolled it over. Whether he was rested or not, the initial stick shaker/pusher would have been enough to slap him in the face, bring him back to reality, and make him recover, but he didn't he froze, I've seen this a thousand times when I flight instructed, the student just holds the yoke back in their chest and freezes, when they enter the stall, then I yell at them to put the nose down. Luckily in a warrior, at 5000 ft you can stall 25 times before you hit the ground as long as the ball is centered, , this was just a breakdown in basic flying skills and instrument scan. That is all, not about rest, fatigue, commuting, autopilot usage, etc. just a simple breakdown in basic flying skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by afterburn81 (Post 610220)

I'm pretty optimistic about most things in life but aviation is slowly loosing it's ability to be one of those things. Mainly because these days money is everything to everyone. Aviation is one pretty unique part of the economy in a sense that when a passenger buys a ticket, every single penny that they pay goes to someone different. In other words there are so many people, agencies, administrations, corporations, associations, boards, shareholders, and finally front line employees having to take a bite out of the cookie. Basically when we as the the flight crew members see it there are only crumbs of the crumbs left. All that and now the cookies being baked are getting smaller and smaller. So until people learn to part with their money and downsize their lifestyles AKA greed, we as the people that harness the brunt of the liability will be only scrutinized and made out to be the scape goats. Pilots are people and people make mistakes, and when the people that influence those people cut corners the mistakes become more abundant. 
 
We are going to have to get used to the fact that a flight crew may have screwed up and we as pilots are all guilty by association in the eyes of the public. Unfortunately nothing will come of it and people will all forget about it just like 9/11. Money alone will not fix it, but rather a reduction in greed. That's going to be a tough one to overcome.

I don't know about anyone else...But i sure as He!! haven't forgotten about 9/11 nor will I ever. I think thats a pretty broad statement to think people have fogotten about 9/11.

This investigation is starting to focus on fatigue.... but not the fatigue caused the the standard 14 hour duty days that airlines and their scheduling departments take ADVANTAGE of, but fatigue caused by commuting, something a vast number of pilots do to get to work. This is going in the wrong direction...

Entice pilots to live in base with attractive salaries. Ban commuting. If you don't want to move, find another job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadyops (Post 610529)

Entice pilots to live in base with attractive salaries. Ban commuting. If you don't want to move, find another job.

When I had my 1st year pay I was forced into a 2 leg commute from my parents house. A crashpad was all I could afford in the LA area. If they ban commuting you can bet a lot of pilots will be forced to quit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadyops (Post 610529)

Entice pilots to live in base with attractive salaries. Ban commuting. If you don't want to move, find another job.

This would be easier if airlines didnt play musical chairs with bases and constantly open and close new ones. If an employee knew their airline has a base in Chicago, and knew that it would stay that way, for a good wage, I am sure people would not have a problem moving.

But since you may be living in Chicago till PennyPinch Airlines changes bases and you have to move again, people don't bother moving in the first place. What the hell are we, nomads?