Airline Pilot Central Forums - Rest

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- - Rest - Who's Responsible? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/40047-rest-whos-responsible.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 611196)

While we can argue management's culpability for creating untenable schedules by trying to do too much with too few crewmembers, remember that it is ALWAYS the crewmember's responsibility that they be fit for duty; FAR 61.53, Part 67, the back of your medical certificate, and very likely somewhere in your FOM says as much.

If you are fatigued or sick, don't fly - you have a responsibility to yourself, your fellow crewmembers, and your passengers...to say nothing of the FARs. Believe me, I know its easier said than done...

For sure if you ARE sick or fatigued, you owe it to yourself to call in sick, but how many time do you think you can call in sick in a given 12 month period and still be employed? Seriously, look at Compass, JetBlue and others where pilots have been fired for calling in sick too often. How often is too often? That is up to the management isn't it? Many pilots even when they are exhausted continue to fly and finish the trip especially if they have already called in sick two or three time within the
previous 12 months. And I am not just referring to Regional pilots. This happens to Major, Cargo pilots also.

It is crew responsibility to work within a known and legally derived schedule. Until the legally part is changed, there will be no working around the individual's responsibility in this. I am all for changing the legal bare minimum rest requirement to 10 hrs and reasonable van rides during lay overs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighteningspeed

How often is too often? That is up to the management isn't it?

Yes it is...and I think that the FAA needs to forcefully address airlines that discipline pilots for following the FARs (and likely, their own company manuals in regards to 'airworthiness'). The "reliability policy" is nothing more than a way to threaten pilots to work when deficient.

The downside, however, is that there are pilots out there who abuse sick time, gaming the system and creating headaches for those who genuinely aren't able to perform their duties.

As a scheduling committee rep in a former life, my own personal inclination is for non-punitive measures for pilots who call out sick (especially probationary pilots)...but I do think more than 6 sick calls in a rolling 12 month period requires further investigation and medical consultation (non-punitive and company-paid, of course) to see if one has a chronic condition that could affect airworthiness, or simply that they have kids and the kids are bringing home colds & flu more often than a single guy would be exposed to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captjns (Post 611153)

Here’s the airlines’ spin on terms and conditions. All employees knew the pay and benefits schedules when interviewing. Base assignments are usually known during initial training. During basic indoctrination, the instructor pointed out that the use crew room as a rest area prohibited. Instructors warned about the evils of long distance commutes. The subject of crash pads came up during training.

Knew the pay and benefits, didn't know that 4 domiciles would open and close in my first 4 years of doing the job.

As far as instructors warning about commutes, you DO KNOW that many instructors commute themselves, don't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by captjns (Post 611153)

I agree that employees know the pay and benefits but flight crews do NOT know how many times scheduling will change your schedule or how many times a CP will "enact" their will on operational issues that directly affect duty times.

I agree that this will raise eyebrows at most but here's hoping that some minor duty times will be changed. The FAA has dismissed NTSB and expert testimony for far, far too long and then they wonder why there are problems.