Pilot Minimum Wage
 

I have done a search but could not find anything about a pilot minimum wage.

It seems that the only way airlines compete in today’s marketplace and stay in business is by offering the cheapest price, thus encouraging outsourcing. These outsourced regional airlines compete by offering the lowest price. They get low prices by hiring inexperienced pilots who will fly for less, they pay the pilots less, fly cheaper airplanes and a lot of them have outsourced training, which is cheaper. These airlines overwork the pilots, and underpay them. I do not mean to insult my fellow regional pilots, but a lot of us are more inexperienced compared to our mainline counterparts; for example we lack PIC turbine time. At some regionals, when the seniority list gets too senior the price becomes too high and they start another airline where the labor costs are lower.

I don’t feel that total regulation is the answer to the airline industry’s woes. Frankly, the government does not have the resources to fight two wars, regulate the banks, regulate the auto industry, regulate the health care industry, and regulate the aviation industry. If we were to have a pilot’s minimum wage airlines could not compete on the price of labor, the price of the ticket would be reflected in the level of service, the frequency of flights, or any other way an airline can separate itself from the competition. It is about time that the labor groups quit carrying the weight of the airlines on their shoulders.

Although this is not perfect, this is a starting point. I propose that we have 4 different classes of airplanes. Pilots would be paid according to the number of seats and would see an hourly pay scale based on the number of seats.


Typical Pay Scale
Small Category (1-50) Captain 150% First Officer 100%
Example: Emb 145 Seating Capacity: 45 Seats
Ca: 67 FO: 45

Medium Category (50-90) Captain 140% First Officer 100%
Example: Emb 170 Seating Capacity 70
Ca: 98 FO: 70

Medium Large (90-200) Captain 110% First Officer 95%
Example: B757 Seating Capacity 200
Ca: 220 FO: 190

Large (200+) Captain 100% First Officer 85%
Example: B777 Seating Capacity 330
Ca: 330 FO: 280

Now this is not a perfect pay scale, but just a start. This would increase the price of a ticket but not by very much. For example; an 8 hour international flight would be less than 2 dollars per hour per seat per hour. This translates to roughly 16 dollars per seat increase for a ticket that runs around a thousand dollars. Now this would be more expensive from a regionals standpoint but the current wages that they offer are a joke, and maybe it would result in more mainline flying.

I think at this point in the economy, the customers who are flying, have to fly, and will continue to fly regardless of a minor increase in the price of a ticket. If they cannot afford a ticket, they can drive or ride on Greyhound or Amtrak. If an airline can offer a lower price, it is doing it because it has a better business model, not because they are breaking the backs of its employees.


Each airline would have to negotiate an increase in pay rate for seniority beyond the minimum wage with its pilots, but that is up to the airline. If they appreciate their employee’s hard work and dedication they can pay them more, but not less. Let’s do away with the undercutting based on employee compensation which has done nothing but bring this industry to its knees.

Sorry for these poorly written paragraphs, but I was curious if this idea has been discussed or would be something to work towards.

I strongly disagree with your first paragraph and frankly some of it is not true. The other parts will never happen, there is no hope for this industry. The only solution will have to be consolidations or BKs. There are too many competitors to make any money. Pilots are part of the problem as well.

Just to play devil’s advocate here. Let’s say that you have 2 airlines flying four sector days on a four day trip. In fact both crews are staying at the same hotel and taking the same hotel van to and from all airports during the four day period. Airline “A”, a regional carrier operates an RJ that seats about 100 passengers. Airline “B “, a major carrier operates a Boeing 737-500 that seats about 122 passengers. Both crews perform the same tasks during the day. Both crews are scheduled for an 11 hour duty day in the northeast during winter operations. Is it fair to say that both crews deserve the same pay since they are performing the same tasks? Should the crew of the 737 earn more pay since their aircraft, because it’s a Boeing?

Air Willie- I can't speak for your airline, it was a more broad view of the industry as a whole, pointing out some of the flaws. I feel that legacy airlines have relied on regionals to keep the costs as low as possible.

Captjns-it is not a perfect pay scale, but I feel that pay should reflect the size aircraft you fly. The more seats, the better the pay. There are different categories which feature different percentages to help with the size diffence. It has nothing to do with it being manufactured in Brazil or the US. A 777 captain should make more than a 737 captain.

capitalism.

Pilots willing to work for low wages=low wages getting paid.

Walmart ruthlessly cuts costs and fosters relentless undercutting and whipsawing of their suppliers. The result is people in Asia work 14 hour days for pennys an hour. America gets cheap stuff, and we by it by the truckload.

No difference in aviation.

Should Chinese manufacturers make as much money doing the same job as US workers?

That is loaded question and has far more ramifications than you think.

Who is CREATING the labor? Colgan, TSA, PSA, et al, are all nameless in the eyes of the passengers. Regional flying is outsourced. In many regards, if the outsourcing didn't exist to lower the costs, the flying wouldn't exist (wouldn't be profitable any other way). If something goes wrong on a regional - its the mainline that suffers the negative repute. Regionals are interchangable substitutes for each other. We are dropped into existing slots bearing their name brand.

The world is full of inequalities when it comes to pay and it will always be that way. Those who are in control of the money will dictate the pay of the lower ranks, with a selfish bias. It is up to each of us as individuals to structure our lives in a way to provide maximum vertical growth in a flawed (probably the best, though - i.e. capitalism) system. If that involves removing ourselves from the industry, then that may very well be the best choice.

Those who choose to stay will either find comfort in the higher ranks in time (after all, some WILL make it to the top) or will live forever in an RJ cockpit making "decent" money after a few years, but never any more. The new 1st years (2nd too) will always make crap. Generally speaking, new RJ hires are interns regardless of the size of their egos or how similar they regard their skills to Mr. Hoover's. We all value the benefit of experience, no one will disregard that. New hires (again, generally speaking) lack this experience.

You don't like capitalism. What economic model do you like?

I personally think capitalism and airlines only work well together in the areas where sufficient regulations have been imposed on 'how low we can go'.

I'm pretty sure theres plenty of management types out there who would have 'no serious concerns' about us trucking people around all day long with a missing tire, single pilot, on 5 hours total rest.

So with respect to wages - maybe we do need to look at puting a floor in.

We didn't invent outsourcing, but we've also never done anything to stop it. In fact you could even say that scope, just helps perpetuate outsourcing, by allowing flying to be done by companies that have time builders in both seats. I know some people will feel like I'm insulting them, and I definitely never want to p*** on someone's grave, but I don't think there should ever be a left seater in a 121 operation with less than 10,000 hours of flight time. I know that numbers are arbitrary, and there are low time pilots with stick and rudder skills, and mature judgement, and there are high time pilots who've crashed airplanes, but with experience comes the awareness of all that there is out there that you still don't know and haven't yet seen. I know that I have much more awareness of my own limitations now than ten years ago, when I was ******* hot 6000 hour jet captain, and I still don't consider myself to have reached some mythical high plateau of ability. There really is a lot of experience out there, and if companies were required to pay for it, it might help stop the race for the gutter that is dragging our very profession with it.

This is in the public eye today, but will be forgotten tommorrow, until the next tragedy...

Sorry if I've offended anyone. I'm not saying that anyone doesn't belong in the industry. All of us in the bottom half of the experience spectrum (myself included) should be sitting to the right of someone in the top half, in a profession that truly values the lives of its customers over the conrtactor with the lowest bid.

Pilots are the biggest part of the problem. When we come out of flight instructing or flying checks, we are willing to take a jet position anywhere for any amount of money, some will even a jet for free...... Why?? "Because I need the turbine time for the majors".... We do it to ourselves, and the regionals exploit that