Stick shacker test making bad muscle memory?
05-15-2009 | 05:21 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
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there is no reason to ever have a stick shaker unless your in the sim. every one knows how slow you need to be going to even get close to a shaker. From every transport category airplane i have flown if your slower than 200-180 kt range your aoa is starting to get uncomfortably high and that is an OBVIOUS clue to start adding flaps or putting in power.
Not a very accurate statement. I've had 3 stick shakers go off. All 3 were on t/o in very gusty/convective conditions. Two times I was the PF, once the PM. One was in the CRJ700 and 2x's in the DC-9. ALL THREE TIMES we were above our Vfto speeds. A sudden gust, the AOA indicator moves, the shaker goes off.
Now granted, we were no where close to a stalled condition, it was a momentary gust. But in all 3 instances the PF had a natural reaction to reduced the AOA slightly to stop the shaker.
My main point...the INITIAL(and natural) REACTION to the shaker was to REDUCE THE AOA.
In YOUR statement, it seems YOU'RE only considering a shaker condition in an approach/landing situation. I am more concerned with the reaction to the situation.
05-15-2009 | 08:23 PM
#12
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined: Dec 2007
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Any of you guys ever experience severe wind shear? The correct procedure for that is to firewall and ride the stick shaker out of it. That involves a pulling back on the yoke to get the shaker....
just a thought
just a thought
05-15-2009 | 10:09 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
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True...but in that case you are intentionally trying to keep it as close to stall AOA as possible. Probably the only time I'd want to be that close...
05-16-2009 | 05:38 AM
#14
Prime Minister/Moderator
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. There is no way that this task should in any way negate the automatic response to an imminent stall. Pushing is in our nature.
We are so ingrained to push that many in my class, including myself, found it very difficult to hold the aircraft in the shaker and let the engines take care of the airspeed during a stall recovery in the ERJ.
Stall recovery is one of the most automatic procedures in all of flying.
We are so ingrained to push that many in my class, including myself, found it very difficult to hold the aircraft in the shaker and let the engines take care of the airspeed during a stall recovery in the ERJ.
Stall recovery is one of the most automatic procedures in all of flying.
I agree that a pilot SHOULD respond to a stall with nose-down inputs, but I suspect that in this case stall and pusher have become separate events as far as muscle-memory goes.
I suspect that for many of us, stall is something that happens in a 172.
You might need to make a conscious decision to override your natural shaker/pusher instinct and go into true stall recovery techniques.
05-16-2009 | 07:28 AM
#16
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
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From: IP
KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid
I think we are making a simple situation more complicated with discussions of muscle memory and what we think we were trained to do in the event of stick shaker.
Stick Shaker = Slow Flight
Recovery is increasing the power and maintaining the pitch while the airplane accelerates. As lift overcomes weight/drag, you'll have to push forward on the controls and/or trim nose down to maintain level flight.
Don't pull back and increase the pitch. You'll end up in a pilot induced pitch oscillation that at the upper pitch attitude will engage the stick pusher.
Stick Pusher = Imminent Aerodynamic Stall
The airplane is automatically doing what pilots would do in successful recoveries of imminent or full aerodynamic stalls.
It's not rocket surgery
Stick Shaker = Slow Flight
Recovery is increasing the power and maintaining the pitch while the airplane accelerates. As lift overcomes weight/drag, you'll have to push forward on the controls and/or trim nose down to maintain level flight.
Don't pull back and increase the pitch. You'll end up in a pilot induced pitch oscillation that at the upper pitch attitude will engage the stick pusher.
Stick Pusher = Imminent Aerodynamic Stall
The airplane is automatically doing what pilots would do in successful recoveries of imminent or full aerodynamic stalls.
It's not rocket surgery
05-16-2009 | 07:46 AM
#17
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Day puke
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From: Out.
05-16-2009 | 03:26 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: EMB 190 FO
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. There is no way that this task should in any way negate the automatic response to an imminent stall. Pushing is in our nature.
We are so ingrained to push that many in my class, including myself, found it very difficult to hold the aircraft in the shaker and let the engines take care of the airspeed during a stall recovery in the ERJ.
Stall recovery is one of the most automatic procedures in all of flying.
We are so ingrained to push that many in my class, including myself, found it very difficult to hold the aircraft in the shaker and let the engines take care of the airspeed during a stall recovery in the ERJ.
Stall recovery is one of the most automatic procedures in all of flying.
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