I do think this adds up here ALPA + Pilot Group = CBA

..........but it isn't even on the same planet as the commuting commuter pilot, now is it ?

There's little true urgency to change the system because those at the top don't live where they crap. Many years ago, ALPA trumpeted "One level of Safety".

Where did it go ?

The grand buffets in Herndon haven't disappeared, but the lifestyle of half the airline pilots in this country (and almost half of ALPA's coffers) has plummeted to become basic survival......Ramen noodles and crewroom couches.

GMAFB...........That dog won't hunt.

Sympathy from Herndon is useless.

Hey wait a minute, give them SOME credit. They've learned a lot at ALPA. Just last week, they followed the lead of great airline managements and imposed; yes IMPOSED a cutback filled contract on their own union employees.

Who would have thought a UNION who claims to fight for us poor working stiffs would have the balls to do to their own people what airline management does to us? And just like airline management, they kept their fat paychecks and benefits untouched.

I want to be the ALPA General Manager and make $400,000.00 a year. Or the head lawyer over there who makes the same. And get a bunch of low paid pilots to pay my way. And then screw the employees. So what it they take it out on the pilots, right? I got mine.

I stand corrected.

But shouldn't this be proof to all that first and foremost, ALPA is a BUSINESS. Business (ALL businesses) have one immutable, undenyable fact in their existance and that is their PRIMARY objective is self-sustanance and profit.

ALPA NUMBER 1 PRIORITY is dues income money. The financially lopsided lifestyles of the stuffed shirts in Herndon have continued anabated while those that are mugged for their dollars are bleeding (and dying) on the front lines.

ALPA National should be liquidated.

I think the point of this argument is that when ever there is an accident of some sort, someone did something wrong. There are some accidents that were almost impossible to prevent and don't fall under one of the know operational pitfalls. IF the cause of this most recent accident was what it seems to be, then that accident could have been prevented very easily. The decision making process was not all that complex......Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Three simple steps. Now I wasn't there and I cannot speculate, but if that was the cause......well that could have probably been prevented with a little experience. But in the argument of the airline management "Experience is too expensive".

Think about the recent Hudson River Accident. Preventing that accident would have been pretty hard but it was experience that ultimately prevented the catastrophe. Someone that had never had any real aerodynamic experience my have delayed their decision making and ditched somewhere a little less forgiving.

ALPA is one of the root problems in this industry. Yeah, they're are good for safety issues in my opinion, but for negotiating pay? No way. Why is there a payscale in the first place? Why does a junior FO make $16,000 a year and a senior captain at the same company make $160,000? At least that's true at my company. Instead why doesn't ALPA negotiate salary. Why can't FOs make $50,000/year and Captains make $100,000, with the exception maybe of a probationary first year. I'm just throwing out numbers...the point I'm trying to make is that a salary system is better than a payscale. Think about it, everyone would come out ahead if you do the math because it takes you less time to achieve a higher salary. And, if you get laid off, instead of going to another $16,000/year job, you get a $50,000/year job at another airline because its salaried too. If an accountant gets laid off do they go back to making poverty level wages just because they have to change companys? No, they go to another company and probably make more because of prior work experience. So why is it the opposite with an airline pilot? Thanks ALPA.

The same tired arguments. If you dont like it, then get involved and try to change it. At the very least you won't beat em, but you'll join them.
The whole ALPA National 'fat cat lifestyle' argument is worn out. :rolleyes:

Maybe we need to go after the RLA, because 99.9% of the time that's what is holding us down. People want to gripe & moan about ALPA, but they don't want to take the time to get involved.

If ya hate ALPA so much why don't ya just start a compaign to oust them? It seems to be working great for UsAir. :rolleyes:

Great example. I never received one of the hundreds of invoices they sent me asking for $40 for the comair merger fund.

Without warning via email, phone or mail, I received a certified letter from ALPA informing me of my lifetime expulsion from the union, and how disappointed they were in my inability to unify with pilots worldwide, and to help out my comair brothers. No where on the letter was there contact information for anyone at ALPA national.

I went ahead and cut them a check for $40 and sent it in. After about 2 weeks I talked to my ALPA rep and had him check my "status." He said that everything appeared normal now that my balence was 0.00.

No letter of re-instatement or comment from anyone in VA, just the return of the worthless weekly emails updating us on how the MEC is spending our money and wasting their time (safety committee meetings, team building conferences, etc).

These are the people I pay to look out for my best interests? They were going to can me over $40. Really?

I agree with you. When I tell people that if there's a layoff or shut down you go back to 20 or 30k per year if you find another airline, they think it's just ridiculous. The problem with the union is that the pay scales are also kept in place for years and years making it difficult for them to adjust. 65K was great money back in the 1990s but not the same now in 2009. Top ALPA carriers have their benefits but the majority of us are stuck with poverty pay that hasn't changed for decades. There definitely needs to be change.

I think that now might not be the perfect timing with a plethora of pilots out on the streets and most regionals if not all fat on pilots. Maybe in a couple of years when hiring resumes and the regionals find themselves in need of pilots due to growth and the void created by mass retirements, we might have a little bit of leverage.